Elderly Parents and Looking Out for Them

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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I had something to talk about and I couldn't find where to put it. There were unrelated but kinda similar comments in politics about taking care of elderly parents.

My father died in 2021. He came down with pneumonia after spending 1.5 months at sea fishing for tuna on his boat. At age 70. The man was a commercial fisherman until almost the very end. some 43 years of fishing from Alaska all down the West Coast. Due to the rona going on they pumped him full of remdesivir and intubated him over pneumonia and it killed him. Makes me more salty as we learn more. He never even had the Rona confirmed by documentation. He drove himself to the doc and everything. But never walked out. This is in rural Oregon.

Now onto the point I really mean here. My mom was married to my father for 38 years. I have 3 sisters. She keeps active and works at a golf course several days a week to keep busy. As my mom and my father were only children my mom was caught holding the bag in a good way in that she, and only she, inherited 2 generations of significant assets from 2 different families.

I want to make really really clear here that I do not give a shit about the money or inheritence. I would rather kill myself than fight with my siblings over it. I do not need the money and I do not want to tell her what to do. All told the estate is now solidly into 8 figures. My mom never lived rich and honestly doesn't no what to do with it. She remodeled her now house (my grandparents original house) as she hated it back in the 70s when she first witnessed it. Totally fine.

The wrinkle here is that she found a new boyfriend she met at the church she goes to. Which is also fine, I want her to be happy. I have not yet met the dude and he literally lives across the street from my sister. My sisters don't like him at all which immediately hits red flags. Of the three of them one of them is a very good judge of character. Dude is a similar age to my mom and has no grandkids. Just one son a little older than me who is unemployed and lives with him. Which hits my red flags.

What I do not want to happen here is that my Mom gets a bug up her ass about this new relationship and marries and then I have to deal with all of that asset shit when she eventually passes away and God forbid if she does before him and he ends up with all of it. It would absolutely break my heart if the one place that means the most to me in the whole world (my grandparents house built in the 70s) and I couldn't go there whenever I wanted as nobody who shares my blood owns it. All because of a legal oversight and my mom getting caught up in it. Which is completely in character for her.

I really have no idea how to bring this up and I don't even know what to say or how to do it. I am going to talk to my sisters about it soon and maybe I am being a doomer or some shit. But I know my Mom. This is like a 50%+ chance already. The woman was only ever married to one man and only dated like 3 dudes before that ever in her life. She sets her sights and just commits to it full on.

And to comment on the other threads I am fully prepared to be there and support my MIL and Mom as much as I need. While I am not the closets geographically I am recognized as the sharpest with money and most pragmatic among my immediate family so my Mom does ask me about such topics a lot. Fuck people who toss their parents in nursing homes for convenience.
 
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Captain Suave

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Tricky situation. Absent a trust and/or prenup set up in advance the new guy could very easily end up holding assets should they marry or qualify for common law. You're going to need to have some uncomfortable conversations ASAP.

My dad remarried after my mom died, and fortunately he and his wife were on the same page about keeping family assets separate so they set up a suite of irrevocable trusts. It's worth taking to an estate lawyer in your mom's state so that you know that the options are.
 
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Palum

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The longer you wait to have that discussion the worse it will get.
 
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Sludig

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Having the sisters on board to maybe have the conversation with everyone all at once might be better than piecemeal.

I would harp on the amount of old women that go to a church and get someone to scam or otherwise written their way in because they are lonely.

She shouldn't have to be lonely, but at her age points out she doesn't have the time to know this guy 5-10 years to know if he's truly trustworthy vs willing to do everything to keep her happy in exchange for a payout in a few years or so.

Might help if you can find any published resources on this kind of thing.
 
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Loser Araysar

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Better to get your siblings on board and have them all with you when you talk with her. In the end this is about money but it's important to position it correctly. Frame the conversation as this being about family money, not just Moms money. And family needing to be good stewards of this money in case anything ever happens to her (is he going to be making the medical decisions if she's in a hospital), or if anything happens to your sisters

An irrevocable trust is worth looking into as soon as possible

There are lawyers who specialize in trusts exclusively and they can have one done in 2 weeks for $1k-3k. They're much more common than people think
 
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lurkingdirk

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Set everything in trusts before they marry or move in together or whatever. If that gets accomplished and the dude is still interested, maybe there's something there.
 
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Captain Suave

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There are lawyers who specialize in trusts exclusively and they can have one done in 2 weeks for $1k-3k. They're much more common than people think

Trust are just good for estate planning anyway and can help avoid estate taxes. This could be a non-confrontational angle for TJT TJT to open up the conversation with his mom.

It's not going to be useful in this case, but anyone married with assets should look into setting up an AB Trust. It can keep your estate from going to probate, help separate assets between families, and reduce costs when one or both spouses die. I've got one.
 
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TJT

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Lanx Lanx I may have to do that just to assuage myself and my siblings.

Further weirdness is that my mom is a chatty cathy about everything. My siblings are pretty much around her everyday. At least one of them is at her house daily. Grandkids too as my sisters collectively have six children. I went to church with her in August and never met this guy and my sister's kids go with her to church regularly and don't recall grandma talking about him or anything.

So she was not deceptive but just didn't bring this up at all for some reason to the point that it blindsided even my sisters who never heard of the guy until last week and didn't meet him until Wednesday. Like why be this weird about it?

She went with this guy to a highschool football game with one of my sisters and her kids. Her kids are old enough to be aware of what's going on and were like "why are the holding hands?"
 

Sludig

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Lanx Lanx I may have to do that just to assuage myself and my siblings.

Further weirdness is that my mom is a chatty cathy about everything. My siblings are pretty much around her everyday. At least one of them is at her house daily. Grandkids too as my sisters collectively have six children. I went to church with her in August and never met this guy and my sister's kids go with her to church regularly and don't recall grandma talking about him or anything.

So she was not deceptive but just didn't bring this up at all for some reason to the point that it blindsided even my sisters who never heard of the guy until last week and didn't meet him until Wednesday. Like why be this weird about it?

She went with this guy to a highschool football game with one of my sisters and her kids. Her kids are old enough to be aware of what's going on and were like "why are the holding hands?"
Alternate tactic.


Call her a whore for shitting on husband's memory and be a good little widow.
 

TJT

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Set everything in trusts before they marry or move in together or whatever. If that gets accomplished and the dude is still interested, maybe there's something there.
I truly wish it was so easy bro.

Long story short in that my parent's siblings passed away decades ago so what had happened is that my mom inherited her families assets in totality. A number of farming properties in the Oregon central valley and such. My father inherited his parents assets and my mom then inherited all of it.

Not a single one of these people had anything more than a "he/she gets it all" level of Last Will and Testament.
 

moonarchia

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I truly wish it was so easy bro.

Long story short in that my parent's siblings passed away decades ago so what had happened is that my mom inherited her families assets in totality. A number of farming properties in the Oregon central valley and such. My father inherited his parents assets and my mom then inherited all of it.

Not a single one of these people had anything more than a "he/she gets it all" level of Last Will and Testament.
Setting it all into a trust is that easy though. You should be doing that irrespective of the new boyfriend. Talk to a lawyer in her area to get the process started. Move all assets into that trust. Set it up specifically to do XXX or YYY, whatever your mom's long term hopes are for her kids, and you are the executor with your mom and your siblings all set as the members of the board.
 
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TJT

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I don't own any of it though. My mom has to be the one doing all of this.
 

moonarchia

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I don't own any of it though. My mom has to be the one doing all of this.
Act as a filial son and advise her. You can get the process started and facilitate it. Just ask her what she wants to do with her assets in the here and now, and how she wants them used when she passes. Bring up the trust as the best vehicle (because it is) to see that happen.
 
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Loser Araysar

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Trust are just good for estate planning anyway and can help avoid estate taxes. This could be a non-confrontational angle for TJT TJT to open up the conversation with his mom.

It's not going to be useful in this case, but anyone married with assets should look into setting up an AB Trust. It can keep your estate from going to probate, help separate assets between families, and reduce costs when one or both spouses die. I've got one.

My only problem with that approach is that it carries no urgency behind it. His mom could just say she'll do it next year and then you're stuck waiting for year(s) for it to get done if ever, because you don't want to bring up the "boyfriend"
 
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Captain Suave

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My only problem with that approach is that it carries no urgency behind it. His mom could just say she'll do it next year and then you're stuck waiting for year(s) for it to get done if ever, because you don't want to bring up the "boyfriend"

Agreed, it just depends on the personal dynamics with his mom. She could easily get offended at the implication the new boyfriend was out for money, or honestly want to provide for him should she predecease. I suspect she already feels weird about the relationship given the previous lack of communication. If she's got a stubborn streak and is pushed she could shut down the whole project by refusing to address it. Or not. Only TJT has a read on that.
 

Haus

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I'll just kick off my contribution for this one from the Parent derail over in Politics... ;) Copypasta powers.. ACTIVATE!

Pre-warning : Incoming Haus Wall Of Text Rant time...

I think it extends beyond just the attitude many younger people take towards their elders, but we can start there. In previous generations (think Greatest Generation, like my grandparents) there was still essentially a version of the ol societal contract. There was an understanding that as adults you not only took care of yourself, and raised your kids, you worked to build generational wealth so that their generation would have something to start from and progress forward. The idea being that every generation should do better than the last, and set up the next generation to do better than them.

What I have seen in my own family is that breaking down, and I think it's because of the "me generation" bullshit starting in the late 60's. My grandfather and grandmother worked their whole lives to generate something to be passed down to the future generations. They were first generation in from the farm rural folks who had essentially nothing. They moved into town because of better jobs, my grandfather worked his ass off with one company his entire post-military career. Bought a house, saved money, raised his kids. This produced my mother's generation. My mother (youngest) and three uncles. Of the four of them only one has managed to get into retirement with even anything saved for retirement, let alone anything to be helping their own kids (and now grandkids) get a leg up. (Hint : it wasn't my mom...) In fact, my mom divorced my dad when I was under 1 year old (he didn't feel like there was a reason to get/keep a job), and then decided she wanted to go "experience life" and rolled with a group of "motorcycle enthusiasts" from the early 70's for a good while. She left me with my grandparents who then adopted and raised me. I thank any given deity that will listen about every day for having them as a safety net to raise me. All the while watching 2 of my 3 uncles live out that low achieving honky-tonk lifestyle... My mom go through 4 husbands (producing my sister along the way). All of them sans one uncle winding up on the "I'm going to start taking social security as early as I can because that's all I have to survive on" train.

My sister proceeds to spin through three husbands, never goes to college, never has any notable career, but also between all the divorces ends up only being a part time parent to her kids. They were mostly raised by their dad. She's now in her 50's, not really working because she "had an accident" that let her get on SSI disability. Then almost exactly when my mom started needing some assistance with things, she decided to move to Tennessee to be closer to her son's and grandbabies. Her and her husband are both in their 50's and living on SSI already and will never work a serious job again. The husband openly prided himself on how much of his life he spent making money that wasn't reported to the government, only to boggle at why his gubbment check is so small....

Meanwhile I was lucky enough that my grandfather put away money to help me get started in life, (it was go to college or get a job, I used it to supplement my first couple years in my career so I could essentially apprentice and learn). I took their example and worked on having a career, and being a good provider. Then I met Mrs. Haus Mrs. Haus and we got married. Due to medical situations and crap which makes me pissed at God (if there is one) we weren't able to have kids for me to try to provide that generational wealth to. All the while having a mom who didn't provide anything on that front now needing me to take care of her, a sister in another state who thinks her doing everything she can for her mom is "I cover her phone bill", and staring down the reality that when my wife and I get older we won't have kids to look after or take care of us through no fault of our own....

But to summarize what I was trying to say about your comment about how society is focused away from their being honor in caring for your elders, you should also remember that many have elders that never truly fulfilled their end of the bargain and earned the respect that would endear you to want to care for them.

Even with that said, I will take care of my mom. Because I'm not scum. But also, I was raised by a whole different generation than most of my peers were.....

Essentially, I am a pro bono landlord. I take care of the house (About to drop money for a new roof among other repairs), and take care of her (buying groceries, handling things, paying bills from her checking account, etc...) The only long range benefit of this to me is that the house she is in (where I was raised, and my grandparents purchased) is in a trust and assuming I outlive her I will end up owning it.

There was talk about having the discussion among all the children, in my case the one other child absconded to another state and doesn't have the money to financially assist. Her one way of handling it would be by moving in and helping, and she doesn't want to move away from her grandbabies in Tennessee.
 

Haus

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New acquisition to help remind my mother to do tiny things like.. oh... check her blood sugar since she's diabetic..


You can program it with custom alarms that come up in text on the screen, and it's big enough to read across a room.