Nutrition and healthy eating

sonicmaster · Nov 22, 2016

This is topic is about nutrition and healthy eating. Not about loosing weight and strict diets.
Are there any nutrition/health professionals or very well informed people here?

After spending hours online I've found so much contradictory information, I just don't know what to trust.
Eating healthy is either much more complicated than people think or it's me who is over complicating things.

So, the point is: eating healthy. However, it's impossible to avoid "calories and weight gain" because that's part of eating and staying healthy.
Feel free to discuss one or more topics, just try to quote them for easier reference.

- Cholesterol: Eggs were monsters. Then they were great, they don't change the blood levels after all, have 10 a day! Now people seem to prefer the "well, if you'r not diabetic or at risk of heart disease you can have one a day, otherwise avoid them". We don't need external cholesterol. So can we eat eggs because the body will keep the protein and keep the cholesterol away from the blood or not?

- Are carbs really useless? Supposedly, you don't need to eat carbs, at all. The body can produce all the sugar it needs from protein and fats. But carbs "feed" the brain quickly (why, the body won't do it by itself after all?) and boost your energy fast in case you need (sports for example). So, assuming we didn't have good nutritional high-carbs foods (like fruit), but only >80-90% like potatoes, sugars, rice, bread, etc Should we eat them or not after all?

- The breakfast. I love how many sites end up saying to choose whatever you like, because carbs are important to start the day, but protein is also important to start the day! So you can choose to have a carb, protein or a mixed carb-protein breakfast. I'm starting to believe the protein/fat option is better. This side points out that carbs boost your energy but will spike your blood sugar, therefore unhealthier, and will leave you hungry sooner. So, you'll end up eating again sooner, maybe more carbs. Protein/fat on the other hand are much more needed by the body, rebuild muscle lost during rest, are healthier and will keep you from hunger longer.

- So what's better for breakfast really: milk+oatmeal+bread/cracker/cookie+fruit or bacon+egg+tomato+cheese? I get the protein vs carb thing, but what about the fats, cholesterol, calorie intake and other stuff? Low-carb/Ketogenic enthusiasts make it look like fats are 100% better than any carb. It still confuses me. Carbs are mostly bad but replacing it all with fats, is it the way to go?

- Follow up on that: it's snack time. Banana+cracker or cheese+nuts? Fruit is good, all the fiber, vitamins, etc but have lots of sugar. Cheese and nuts are also great on properties with much less sugar. But it's mostly fat. Fats are essencial, sure, but won't them lead faster to visceral fat build up and contribute to vascular problems?

Denaut · Nov 22, 2016

I've been running around this for as long as you have and there is a shit ton of conflicting evidence in the details. But, essentially, what I've sussed out of this is that beyond what you can do in your kitchen, the more processed something is the worse it is for you.

Now, someone is going to quibble with me about the meaning of "processing" as cooking or fermenting food is technically processing it, but for the sake of determining how healthy something is most of what you can do in your kitchen doesn't fall into this category. Cooking food makes it easier to digest and especially for vegetables can make the nutrients more bio-available.

This falls down the food chain as well. Sugar (yes "raw" sugar too) is a heavily processed ingredient, it basically comes from a stick you have to manipulate the hell out of to get the sugar. Herbivores that eat grass and brush instead of processed corn are healthier animals and thus their meat is healthy. Same goes for chicken's and their eggs.

Ironically even though fermenting is processing it can turn less healthy food into more healthy food, probably because you are eating them. For example, one of the problems with store bought bread is that it is risen and baked as fast as humanely possible, and the yeast don't have time to do their job. It is also loaded with all sorts of other stuff, but that is besides the point. But if you make a sour dough at home in your oven (maybe even from local wild yeast) you are doing so with 4 ingredients; water, flour, salt, and yeast, and let the yeast do their job for the many hours they need, it is a completely different food than one you'd find in the store.

As for meal timing, research has pretty much shown it to be utterly irrelevant. As long as you eat what you need to in the quantities you need to it doesn't matter when you eat. Eat whenever you want, just eat the right things.

I'll dive into your specific questions in a few minutes.

Denaut · Nov 22, 2016

sonicmaster said:
- Cholesterol: Eggs were monsters. Then they were great, they don't change the blood levels after all, have 10 a day! Now people seem to prefer the "well, if you'r not diabetic or at risk of heart disease you can have one a day, otherwise avoid them". We don't need external cholesterol. So can we eat eggs because the body will keep the protein and keep the cholesterol away from the blood or not?

Eggs are healthy, they are loaded with nutrients, their is no reason to pathologically avoid them. Grazed local eggs are better (better fat and nutrient profile).

- Are carbs really useless? Supposedly, you don't need to eat carbs, at all. The body can produce all the sugar it needs from protein and fats. But carbs "feed" the brain quickly (why, the body won't do it by itself after all?) and boost your energy fast in case you need (sports for example). So, assuming we didn't have good nutritional high-carbs foods (like fruit), but only >80-90% like potatoes, sugars, rice, bread, etc Should we eat them or not after all?

I minimize my carb intake (1 piece of fruit max per day), but I am especially prone to gaining fat. I generally thing carbs are demonized more than they should be, but like all 3 of the macro-nutrients not all "carbs" are created equal. There is some pretty decent evidence that fructose void of its fiber is bad for you, but the processing rule applies here.

Note that veggies are also a carbohydrate food, but they are extremely nutrient and fiber dense per gram of carbohydrates, which is why they are so good for you. You can get enough carbs from eating non-starchy vegetables without risking overeating on them. which is the main problem with primarily carbohydrate foods, they aren't satiating and it is easy to eat too much.

- The breakfast. I love how many sites end up saying to choose whatever you like, because carbs are important to start the day, but protein is also important to start the day! So you can choose to have a carb, protein or a mixed carb-protein breakfast. I'm starting to believe the protein/fat option is better. This side points out that carbs boost your energy but will spike your blood sugar, therefore unhealthier, and will leave you hungry sooner. So, you'll end up eating again sooner, maybe more carbs. Protein/fat on the other hand are much more needed by the body, rebuild muscle lost during rest, are healthier and will keep you from hunger longer.

- So what's better for breakfast really: milk+oatmeal+bread/cracker/cookie+fruit or bacon+egg+tomato+cheese? I get the protein vs carb thing, but what about the fats, cholesterol, calorie intake and other stuff? Low-carb/Ketogenic enthusiasts make it look like fats are 100% better than any carb. It still confuses me. Carbs are mostly bad but replacing it all with fats, is it the way to go?

There is, in general, way too much emphasis on breakfast for some reason. Probably has something to do with it being the place where in the 20th century companies first made inroads into our kitchen through modern marketing.

Breakfast is a meal just like any other, and you can treat it as such. You don't have to make any special considerations for it other than maybe being pressed for time. What is healthy for lunch or dinner is healthy for breakfast. Personally I never eat breakfast as I am never hungry in the morning and as a rule I don't eat when I am not hungry.

- Follow up on that: it's snack time. Banana+cracker or cheese+nuts? Fruit is good, all the fiber, vitamins, etc but have lots of sugar. Cheese and nuts are also great on properties with much less sugar. But it's mostly fat. Fats are essencial, sure, but won't them lead faster to visceral fat build up and contribute to vascular problems?

What is snack time? Are you hungry? If you aren't hungry then don't eat. If you are getting hungry then it might be easier just to eat a larger previous meal since snacks are generally the place most people over eat. For fruit just use common sense, an apple for a snack is fine, 5 apples is too many.

Fats don't directly contribute to visceral fat, all the food you eat (and your hormonal profile) do. Believe it or not it is actually quite hard to eat too much fat as long as you don't eat it too quickly and don't pair it with refined carbohydrates. Sometimes I am still a little hungry after lunch, in that case I might eat a small spoon of peanut butter. At that moment I could probably eat a lot of peanut butter, but if I eat a small spoon and just wait a bit that usually does it. If I am still hungry 15 minutes even after that I will eat a little more.

If you ever get that bloated/stuffed feeling then you've eaten too much. Eat more slowly next time, or wait longer between snacks.

McCheese · Nov 22, 2016

sonicmaster said:
Eating healthy is either much more complicated than people think or it's me who is over complicating things.

Yeah, you're definitely over complicating things. I feel like this is what happens when MMO min-maxers meet nutrition.

Just eat wholesome food like veggies, fruits, and meats. Eat when you're hungry, don't eat when you're not. It's super easy to eat healthy.

Source: me.

Big_w_powah · Nov 22, 2016

McCheese said:
Yeah, you're definitely over complicating things. I feel like this is what happens when MMO min-maxers meet nutrition.

Just eat wholesome food like veggies, fruits, and meats. Eat when you're hungry, don't eat when you're not. It's super easy to eat healthy.

Source: me.

Just not as convenient..

sonicmaster · Nov 22, 2016

Thanks for contributing, great posts

Denaut !

Denaut said:
Eggs are healthy, they are loaded with nutrients, their is no reason to pathologically avoid them. Grazed local eggs are better (better fat and nutrient profile).

I keep seeing people who will always leave the yolk on the plate, which I find completely silly. But in my case, it's switching from 1 egg a week to 1 every day in the morning. Still better than carbs I guess.

Denaut said:
I minimize my carb intake (1 piece of fruit max per day)

1 fruit per day seems to little to me. I believe I get from fruit many things I don't get elsewhere. I usually eat 3 per day but 1) I don't eat those little bombs like bananas or tens of grapes, better ones rather; 2) I try to keep eating different fruits each week to get the different benefits.

Denaut said:
There is, in general, way too much emphasis on breakfast for some reason.

Breakfast is a meal just like any other, and you can treat it as such. Personally I never eat breakfast as I am never hungry in the morning and as a rule I don't eat when I am not hungry.

I've read some opinions about the metabolism reacting different after waking up therefore the relevance of the breakfast.
It's not that I wake up starving but it has become a hardwired habit because I take a long time to get to work so I always eat before leaving. I guess I can quit alternating between the carbs for breakfast and just eat up all my meat, fish, mushrooms, eggs, cheese, herbs, etc.

Denaut said:
What is snack time? Are you hungry? If you aren't hungry then don't eat. If you are getting hungry then it might be easier just to eat a larger previous meal since snacks are generally the place most people over eat. For fruit just use common sense, an apple for a snack is fine, 5 apples is too many.

I never eat if I'm not hungry. Snack time is when I get hungry or literally weak between breakfast and lunch (5 hours) and between lunch and dinner (7 hours). People keep telling me I should never starve for so many hours and should eat something every 2 hours. I don't really care for that rule and I never overdo myself on snack time.

So, cheese and nuts all the way instead of fruit and cracker. The thing is...when we get this picky with food I kind of feel out of options some time. Cheese and nuts every day... lol I'm not going to cook chicken or boil eggs everyday. Smoked salmon and cold cuts aren't practical to bring to work. It has to be something easier and I'm out of imagination.

TomServo · Nov 22, 2016

Eat Pussy everyday and you should be fine. It's got probiotics too!

Borzak · Nov 22, 2016

Lot of genetics involved. I eat 2-3 eggs at least 3 times a week, normally 4 days and my cholesterol just checked out below normal at age 45. My grandmother eats 2 eggs every day of her life along with a lot of ham/backon for breakfast everday. She eats more grease than meat at every non breakfast meal. Still going at age 95. My wholey family has eaten what you could call non healthy (but not junk food) and everyone so far has lived to at least 80. The more eggs, the more bacon, the more grease the better.

Gilgamel · Nov 24, 2016

I just want to contribute:

Psyllium Husk

Shit's amazing. Literally.

Picasso3 · Nov 24, 2016

Rickshaw this shit

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Nutrition and healthy eating

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