11.22.63

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Cantatus

Cantatus

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uncognito_sl said:
I have been enjoying this for the most part. but they seem to be getting side tracked a lot. a little less of the love story/husband would be nice. I also was expecting him to go back to his time and see some changes by now then start over again when he sees he fucked stuff up. I was looking forward to the outcome of him saving the life of that guy's family and killing his dad. like perhaps it turns out the guy's mom was a psycho and fucked him up and he ended up exactly the same, or he turns out to be very smart/normal and is the principal of the school.. or whatever. but instead we are stuck watching the main dude romance some chick, and the useless stuff with her ex.

moar time travel, less BS.
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The side-tracking is pretty faithful to the book due him ending up at several years before Oswald returns to America. It's a lot of him trying to blend in while also keeping track of parts of the conspiracy.

As far as Jake returning to the present:

That's actually what happens in the book. Him going back and saving Harry was sort of an experiment to see if his actions actually have an impact. I was sort of surprised to see them not go that route and instead had him instantly going to Dallas. He basically went from giving up due to the past screwing with him, deciding to change one little thing on his way home, then just going to Dallas anyways. There really didn't seem to be any motivation for him to suddenly embracing his mission aside from Bill finding out about it.
 
Conefed

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Show is great. Reminds me of Steven King. Coworkers got me into it and I couldn't help but binge the available 4 episodes.
 
Djay

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Same. I wish they had spent a little more time in the altered timeline detailing how everything changed and why, but I don't know if the source material did that or not either. Satisfied with the series overall. Really enjoying the original content coming out of Netflix and Hulu now.
 
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Djay_sl said:
Same. I wish they had spent a little more time in the altered timeline detailing how everything changed and why, but I don't know if the source material did that or not either. Satisfied with the series overall. Really enjoying the original content coming out of Netflix and Hulu now.
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I researched it. In the book they apparently do detail a little more. I have it on my queue in Audible. Definitely looking forward to listening to it.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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I found a website that details what happened in the alternate timeline

SPOILER: What Happens in Future if Kennedy Lived in Stephen King's 11/22/63 novel

Quick version: Kennedy sucks in his 2 terms and never enacts the stuff Johnson did, including civil rights. George Wallace basically is ok with nuclear war and Vietnam is pretty much glassed. Other countries also become more open to using nukes and eventually Islamic terrorists get nukes and start using them. Massive shifts in the timeline are also destroying the Earth and they predict the Earth will be fucked in a few decades.
 
Cantatus

Cantatus

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Djay_sl said:
Same. I wish they had spent a little more time in the altered timeline detailing how everything changed and why, but I don't know if the source material did that or not either. Satisfied with the series overall. Really enjoying the original content coming out of Netflix and Hulu now.
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One of my main complaints with the book is that it's like 90% about saving Kennedy and then only like 5% of actually seeing the results. The actual consequences of Jake's actions felt so rushed. You basically get the same thing in the book you got in the show where Jake goes back and basically gets an infodump and then he resets.

That said, I was surprised and pleased to see they stuck with the book's ending. Considering some of the differences made in this show, I was starting to feel they were going to cop out and give it the "happy ending" where Jake and Sadie end up together.
 
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velk

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Cantatus_sl said:
That said, I was surprised and pleased to see they stuck with the book's ending. Considering some of the differences made in this show, I was starting to feel they were going to cop out and give it the "happy ending" where Jake and Sadie end up together.
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Eh, it made even less sense in the show than in the book. Listening to crazy hallucination guy about how it's impossible to change the past immediately after conclusively proving that you can makes no sense at all.
 
Ambiturner

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velk_sl said:
Eh, it made even less sense in the show than in the book. Listening to crazy hallucination guy about how it's impossible to change the past immediately after conclusively proving that you can makes no sense at all.
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I was wondering about that, too. The old guy went back over and over to save his child, but every time the child would die anyways. That's consistent with Jake going back to save his student's family and having them all die anyways, but not consistent with the fact that Jake WAS able to save Kennedy who lived at least another 15 years since he established the Kennedy camps in '75. Sadie also didn't die in the normal timeline, but would supposedly die no matter what if he did go back.

The best I could justify it was that it was the past doing it to prevent Jake from changing it. Meaning it consciously chose Sadie and the student's family since they have a personal connection with him
 
Cybsled

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Ya, I took it that way as well. Yes, he technically changed the past, but in the end nothing actually changed because he "chose" to reset the changes. Thus not being able to change the past is technically correct, because the actual end result is the time continuum remained untouched.
 
Intrinsic

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This would have been 100% better if James Franco was just playing himself and not Jake Epping. Chris Cooper picks the biggest idiot he can find to entrust saving Kennedy who then goes back in time and somehow finds and even bigger moron to be his partner and help him. That whole plot line goes nowhere. Franco can't keep his head down and constantly gets the shit kicked out of him, briefly losing his memory just because. Sadie can't remember where he lived? You were just there lady! Years to plan and know, down to the minute, where he's supposed to be but still almost misses the event. My favorite part of the last episode was when he's speeding down the road and swerves in to oncoming traffic for no reason.

The book has to be better than this, right? Only have myself to blame though, should have just given up early.
 
Cantatus

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- Chris Cooper's character (Al) really didn't have many options. He had gone back several times to try to prevent Kennedy being assassinated and failed every time. Jake was basically Al's last ditch effort since his cancer prevented him from having the time to make another attempt - or to go scouting for possible candidates who would believe his insane story and be willing to give up three years of his or her life. (In the book, the diner is also about to be demolished, destroying the portal.)

- Bill wasn't really a character of note in the book. He was introduced the same way (Harry's father killed his sister) but stayed behind in Maine. He was definitely the biggest change in the adaptation, but my guess is he was written in to largely serve as a stand-in for the audience. It gave Jake someone he needed to relay historical events to, giving context to the actions he was taking, which wasn't really necessary in the novel. (And Jake really didn't find him so much as he is forced to let Bill tag along or risk his plans being ruined.) I don't think it's coincidence that Bill kills himself right around the time Sadie finds out the truth and begins to fill that role.

- Jake had the apartment in Dallas he shared with Bill (below Oswald) and a house in Jodie. Sadie was never to the apartment.

- Also, Jake wastryingto keep his head down, but there was the whole history fighting back thing that was a pretty big plot point. The fire at the boarding house, the car running down the phone booth, Sadie's husband showing up, even him getting beat up and losing his memory all occur after he attempts to or is getting close to making a change to the timeline. It's the same reason he almost misses the event. The bigger a change he is attempting to make, the more time fights back.
 
BrutulTM

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I haven't seen the TV show but I really liked the book. Time travel by necessity causes all these crazy paradoxes which is why I am not a fan of it in general but I thought King handled it better than most people do. Yes if you want to you can pick apart certain inconsistencies but that is true of pretty much every time travel story ever. The thing that impresses me about more recent Stephen King books is that he has learned to write good characters and even a good love story where I feel like his early stuff was just about the crazy story.
 
Ambiturner

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Intrinsic_sl said:
This would have been 100% better if James Franco was just playing himself and not Jake Epping. Chris Cooper picks the biggest idiot he can find to entrust saving Kennedy who then goes back in time and somehow finds and even bigger moron to be his partner and help him. That whole plot line goes nowhere. Franco can't keep his head down and constantly gets the shit kicked out of him, briefly losing his memory just because. Sadie can't remember where he lived? You were just there lady! Years to plan and know, down to the minute, where he's supposed to be but still almost misses the event. My favorite part of the last episode was when he's speeding down the road and swerves in to oncoming traffic for no reason.

The book has to be better than this, right? Only have myself to blame though, should have just given up early.
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I get that you didn't read the book, but did you even watch the show?
 
Intrinsic

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Cantatus_sl said:
- Chris Cooper's character (Al) really didn't have many options. He had gone back several times to try to prevent Kennedy being assassinated and failed every time. Jake was basically Al's last ditch effort since his cancer prevented him from having the time to make another attempt - or to go scouting for possible candidates who would believe his insane story and be willing to give up three years of his or her life. (In the book, the diner is also about to be demolished, destroying the portal.)

- Bill wasn't really a character of note in the book. He was introduced the same way (Harry's father killed his sister) but stayed behind in Maine. He was definitely the biggest change in the adaptation, but my guess is he was written in to largely serve as a stand-in for the audience. It gave Jake someone he needed to relay historical events to, giving context to the actions he was taking, which wasn't really necessary in the novel. (And Jake really didn't find him so much as he is forced to let Bill tag along or risk his plans being ruined.) I don't think it's coincidence that Bill kills himself right around the time Sadie finds out the truth and begins to fill that role.

- Jake had the apartment in Dallas he shared with Bill (below Oswald) and a house in Jodie. Sadie was never to the apartment.

- Also, Jake wastryingto keep his head down, but there was the whole history fighting back thing that was a pretty big plot point. The fire at the boarding house, the car running down the phone booth, Sadie's husband showing up, even him getting beat up and losing his memory all occur after he attempts to or is getting close to making a change to the timeline. It's the same reason he almost misses the event. The bigger a change he is attempting to make, the more time fights back.
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Appreciate the explanations. And I would like to read the book because I'm generally a fan of King and even his less than great stuff. What you are saying makes sense but I still don't think it works that well. Sadie was a great character and their relationship and the development was very good. If they had pushed that up a little and left Bill behind, he becomes another historical character Jake meets on his way, Sadie could have filled in. Having him around to create conflict and drama only to kill him off just seemed very throw away. There's sort of this relationship or affair he wants with Marina, but nothing really happens so it is irrelevant. Even his conflict with Jake ultimately doesn't mean anything. It doesn't really influence Jake's actions or the plan, only serves as a way for him to say, "You stay here and listen! I'm running over here to do this thing!"

Yeah I fucked up the apartment thing. Rewatched that part this morning to double check. I had it stuck in my head that she dropped the food off at his apartment and found the listening equipment, not that it was the house in Jodie with the player.

I understand the whole history fighting back part. There were very big examples of it, like you say, but in all those kind of strange (?) circumstances the idea of the Past fighting back seemed much more personified and a direct actor in trying to stop him. If the book is more direct in explaining how the other situations are the result of that, that sound good. But Jake inserted himself in her relationship, he antagonized her husband, and directly contributed to everything that happened. Same with getting beat up not once, but twice, by the bookies. The 2nd time which was Bill's dumbass fault for playing the same bets all over town behind Jake. What'd that have to do with the Past? Then the amnesia thing just felt forced. There wasn't any suspense about if he was going to be in a coma through the assassination or that he wouldn't remember what he was there for. Half an episode later he remembers everything and the plot is back on track, thanks for that little distraction.

Only arguing here b/c I really did want to like it and probably did more than I want to admit. Otherwise wouldn't have bothered necro'ing the thread. And usually fall in line with most of the boards opinion on things, so find it interesting that my opinion here differs so much.

Ambiturner_sl said:
I get that you didn't read the book, but did you even watch the show?
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You're not invited to my birthday!
 
Cantatus

Cantatus

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I actually don't disagree too much on Bill. I understand what his purpose was, but he just became little more than a means to an end. Like I said, once Sadie knew the truth, Bill became irrelevant. It didn't even seem like that big of a deal to Jake that he drove Bill to suicide by having him forcibly committed.

As far as the rest goes, I think the show gives a little bit more personification to the past than the novel, but again, I think that has to do with how to convey it to the audience and to insert more drama in the series. However, the intention in both is to leave a lot up to the viewer/reader to decide whether or not something getting in Jake's way is a result of the past fighting back or just bad luck. Yes, Jake is responsible for putting himself in the path of Sadie's husband by getting involved with her, but it is that same action that directly prevents Jake from witnessing the assassination attempt on Gov. Walker - an event that would've lead to Jake confirming Oswald as JFK's killer, letting him finish his mission much sooner. Jake is much more careful with his bets after getting beat up the first time, but that still comes back to bite him in the ass right at a time where Jake is ready to take out Oswald.

Are these just happenstance or is the timeline steering Jake towards these obstacles?

If you consider the fact that Al believes the past gave him terminal cancer to prevent him from changing things, the latter isn't too much of a stretch. And perhaps the past was pushing Jake in very subtle ways. Is it just coincidence that Jake happens to find a high school in need of an English teacher outside of Dallas right when he shows up?
 
Ambiturner

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Cantatus_sl said:
If you consider the fact that Al believes the past gave him terminal cancer to prevent him from changing things, the latter isn't too much of a stretch. And perhaps the past was pushing Jake in very subtle ways. Is it just coincidence that Jake happens to find a high school in need of an English teacher outside of Dallas right when he shows up?
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Not sure if serious, but an area with a population 1,000,000+ probably had quite a few open English teacher positions at any given time.
 
Blitz

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Honestly, really liked the show. The initial thing that may have intrigued me enough to read the book was the altered timeline post-Kennedy being saved. The Sadie & Jake story was better than the rest. Thought there would be a lot more to trying to stop the assassination, but all in all it was worth a watch, but I'll pass on the book.
 
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