Adventures with lyrical - buying a business

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Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
Aetos said:
What kind of ROI do you expect out of a campaign? I"m sure you"ve calculated all the points and what not.
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Looks like I"ll be running 3 spots a week during rush on NPR @$500 a month, and I"ll be sponsoring the weather on Conservative talk during rush three times a day ($10 a spot), and then run three spots a week during Rush Limbaugh ($50 a spot). Limbaugh is the highest rated show they have. Total radio budget wlll be $1700 a month, that"s fine, all I need is to generate three calls a day, our average job is $700, we close half of every customer we bid a job on, so its $14-20 k a month sales I am hoping for. We"ll see how it goes.

I could care less about ideology, I want the college educateds with income. First NPR spot is in an hour, still working on negotiating with the conservative station, and will need to cut some creative.
 
Jalynfane

Jalynfane

Phank 2002
719
563
Are you planning on tracking your close % from the radio spots separately from your other lines of advertising?

Did they charge you production fees or did you supply everything?
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
Jalynfane said:
Are you planning on tracking your close % from the radio spots separately from your other lines of advertising?

Did they charge you production fees or did you supply everything?
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We track where our calls come from, as well as our % close for each media source. And yeah, by far our close rate is much higher for repeat/referral than anything else. People that have used us know we will do the job right.

NPR, since its a non-profit, has very specific rules for advertising (like no calls to action), and the announcer reads every spot. For conservative radio, they know that most small businesses don"t want to drop $1k on production costs, so I"ll have them do the ad in-house (they offer it for free), but with alot of input from me. I don"t want to fit a cookie cutter ad they use for everyone, ad doesn"t go forward unless I approve it.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
So, I"ve never done TV or radio, but I"ve known of business owners who are paranoid that the station is screwing them by not playing their spots. Lo and behold, the first radio spot didn"t get played. Ive been arguing with NPR all morning, they claim that everyone signed off on the ad as done, yet I heard with my own ears it wasn"t on. Thankfully, since it was our first time on the radio, we had the whole thing on camcorder and send them the video with a timestamp.

Moral of the story, look over your schedule and listen or watch, because people get screwed and/or mistakes happen.
 
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opiate82_foh

shitlord
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0
It"s not like the radio-station doesn"t also have tape, but the camcorder more shows that you are paying attention. When it comes to a "time stamp" pretty much short of verifying your longitude and latitude and then compare that with the position of the sun in the sky anything can be tampered.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
opiate82 said:
It"s not like the radio-station doesn"t also have tape, but the camcorder more shows that you are paying attention. When it comes to a "time stamp" pretty much short of verifying your longitude and latitude and then compare that with the position of the sun in the sky anything can be tampered.
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Timestamp is not the issue. What is the issue is that we were supposed to be on when they switched between certain segments, and that is what has made them crap their pants. Sadly, I think stuff like this goes on alot. They"ve told me they"ll air a make up spot here in 30 mins, and we"ll go from there.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
Lyrical said:
Timestamp is not the issue. What is the issue is that we were supposed to be on when they switched between certain segments, and that is what has made them crap their pants. Sadly, I think stuff like this goes on alot. They"ve told me they"ll air a make up spot here in 30 mins, and we"ll go from there.
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ROFL, they did the make up anouncement and the announcer read it like someone stuck a broomstick up his ass. I thought it was just me imagining things, then two of my employees called me and said that he sounded stressed and like he was on crack. He signed off certifying that he read it yesterday, I called him a liar, and the station"s been on his ass all day. He had three or four managers sitting their glaring at him in the booth while he read the announcement.
 
C

Cathan_foh

shitlord
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0
Lyrical said:
I still see a ton of opportunity, given that the seller has ignored the internet, he"s not managed expenses in the Winter,he"s had too many people on staff, and there are also other lines of landscaping that we could extend into.
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My uncle runs his own mobile home set up business and finding good help is a serious pain in the ass. Seems like that"s true for ALL manual labor jobs imo. If in cutting expenses you cut staff in the winter how do you maintain loyalty among your staff and get them to work hard?

My uncle did a lot to take care of the good employees he had when work slowed down so they stayed on and were there to help make money when work picked back up.

Are you only cutting like part time help or do you lay off permanent staff in the slow periods?
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
Cathan said:
My uncle runs his own mobile home set up business and finding good help is a serious pain in the ass. Seems like that"s true for ALL manual labor jobs imo. If in cutting expenses you cut staff in the winter how do you maintain loyalty among your staff and get them to work hard?

My uncle did a lot to take care of the good employees he had when work slowed down so they stayed on and were there to help make money when work picked back up.

Are you only cutting like part time help or do you lay off permanent staff in the slow periods?
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I"ve cut non-payroll expenses about 7k a month, I"ve hardly ever laid off a good worker (FT or PT) due to Winter yet. Part of it is the kindness of my heart, part of it is that we give great customer service, and its hard to do that if the workers think they"ll be laid off in a few months.

The one Winter where I lost 100k paying everyone, I wish I could change. I talked to the previous owner who said he wouldn"t have been that generous, and he was known for its generosity. Most Winters we lose 20-40k, I"m thinking that at 40k in the red, I need to consider laying off. But I"ve got some new marketing initiatives out there that I"m hoping will pay off with more sales in the Winter.

All you can do is hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
 
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opiate82_foh

shitlord
0
0
Also sometimes you"ll end up paying more in unemployment costs/insurance than what the wages of the laid-off employee would have been. If I lay off an employee and they collect just a single day of unemployment before finding another job, my rates go up for the next 3 years. Needless to say any employee I let go is done with cause and lots of documentation. This depends on the state of course, WA is particularly harsh in those regards.
 
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LikeTheWhirlwind_foh

shitlord
0
0
Lyrical said:
I"ve cut non-payroll expenses about 7k a month, I"ve hardly ever laid off a good worker (FT or PT) due to Winter yet. Part of it is the kindness of my heart, part of it is that we give great customer service, and its hard to do that if the workers think they"ll be laid off in a few months.

The one Winter where I lost 100k paying everyone, I wish I could change. I talked to the previous owner who said he wouldn"t have been that generous, and he was known for its generosity. Most Winters we lose 20-40k, I"m thinking that at 40k in the red, I need to consider laying off. But I"ve got some new marketing initiatives out there that I"m hoping will pay off with more sales in the Winter.

All you can do is hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
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My dad works for a irrigation company and they close down during the winter and most of the workers just claim seasonal unemployment (some do snow removal, etc). Something you"ve ever considered or does it just not work this way in your state?
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
LikeTheWhirlwind said:
My dad works for a irrigation company and they close down during the winter and most of the workers just claim seasonal unemployment (some do snow removal, etc). Something you"ve ever considered or does it just not work this way in your state?
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The problem is like someone else said, in some states, your unemployment stays high no matter how soon your laid off employee gets work. Last time I called, I would get nicked $300 a month for two years for each employee laid off, even if he picked up work the next day. States are so overbudget on unemployment that they do this crap. In some states, you are better off blocking unemployment. Example, I hire a guy, he doesn"t do good work, I let him work one day, technically, I"m out $7k on a guy I paid a little over a hundred bucks to.
 
Eomer

Eomer

Trakanon Raider
5,472
272
That"s fucked. Here Employment Insurance rates are basically just a payroll tax. The company pays some, the employee pays some. The rates are set based upon salary, with an upper limit. There"s no adjustment of rates for either the employer or employee based upon hiring/employment history.

If a company is laying people off, it likely means they"re already in trouble. Then you compound that with higher employment insurance rates? That"s assbackwards, and incentivizes inefficiency.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
Eomer said:
That"s fucked. Here Employment Insurance rates are basically just a payroll tax. The company pays some, the employee pays some. The rates are set based upon salary, with an upper limit. There"s no adjustment of rates for either the employer or employee based upon hiring/employment history.

If a company is laying people off, it likely means they"re already in trouble. Then you compound that with higher employment insurance rates? That"s assbackwards, and incentivizes inefficiency.
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Its really screwed up, and I remember the first time I laid someone off and called the state, I was pissed off to the highest of pisstivity. You really have to check out references and stuff before you hire, a guy working for the company for one day could cost you thousands. The one thing that is the saving grace is that if they violate company policy, or quit, they can"t draw. So if I put in the employee handbook that we work weekends for emergency work, and a guy doesn"t show, he gets nothing. Also, a no-show is considered a quit. The other day, one of our guys backed into a customer"s mailbox, and got into a verbal fight with my Foreman, and didn"t show up to work (all over a $20 repair). These guys are shocked when they don"t show up to work, or show up to work late, find out they are laid off, file for unemployment, and then the state denies them.

Like another poster said in this thread, unemployment is so screwed up here, that you better document everything, and find a policy they"ve broken. You could very easilty find yourself with an unemployment insurance bill of 10k or more at the end of the year (if just three people leave) and the bad news is that this goes on for multiple years.
 
Eomer

Eomer

Trakanon Raider
5,472
272
Yeah, that"s pretty fucked. Eligibility works the same here: if they quit or are fired with cause, then they can"t collect. If they"re laid off, then they can. Since we"re a construction company and we"re specifically exempted from basically ALL notice requirements, we generally just check the box for laid off when we"re letting someone go, even if it"s actually because they"re useless and not because of lack of work. If the guy"s a real special asshole, then we"ll put that they were terminated with cause so they can"t collect. But at the end of the day, it makes zero difference to us.
 
C

Cathan_foh

shitlord
0
0
Lyrical said:
Last time we did door hangers was in the dead of Winter, so thats not a good time to measure things. We generated about $400 a week in that time. I"d be willing to bet that since demand goes up 7x in the Spring, Summer and Fall, that we"d generate 3k a week. I"ll order 2500 door hangers from doorhangers.com to test it next month (I"m sending a mailer to all my customers in April, its not cheap).

Door hangers also work great for this business, because when we work on one neighbor"s house, we tend to pick up work in that same neighborhood from referrals. The same holds true, we piss off a customer, we"ve pissed off the whole block, they all talk about work done in that neighborhood. We have great penetration in some of the more affluent neighborhoods, but every week, I drive by some areas we don"t do much work in. We drove past three or four affluent neighborhoods I didn"t even know existed, we"ll put down hangers in them when I get new ones.

So we"ll test it in May, if we aren"t already at max capacity for that month also.
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Reading through the thread here you said you do high end landscaping which sounds like a 1 time deal to me but you make good cash on it.

Later on in the thread you talk about partnering up with other businesses for referrals and various other methods of advertising. At another point you mention how some of your competitors mow lawns but don"t have the heavy equipment you do for the landscaping, how your guys don"t cut lawns...

Somehow I doubt this has escaped you but why not have either a separate business that cuts lawns or roll it into this business? Seems like you could use the lawn cutting business to bring in more clients for your landscaping business just by offerring more services and direct word of mouth referrals from one business to the other...
 
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