Advice for someone failing college?

Break · Oct 26, 2022

Someone I know, let's call him Dan, early 20's, is in college working towards their bachelors' degree. If you ask me, he never showed very much aptitude toward their chosen career field, something in IT. He's failed some classes, one multiple times, and the college made him take a year off but eventually allowed him to resume taking classes again. Things aren't going very well once again, he's apparently in danger of failing one of the classes they've failed at I think twice before so this would be his third time.

He needs 19 credits to graduate... in a field he himself said he's not really interested in anymore, if he ever was. Becoming a drop out doesn't seem like an option. I think it's taken a huge toll on his mental health, he seems dejected every time I see him once or twice a year or so. He wants to finish badly, but he's going deeper in debt and I don't think he's been getting good advice from anyone. I'd like to try talking him into dropping out or at least changing majors, his dad owns his own business which he's working at part time and having a full time job there would be no problem, if he wants it. The problem is he hates the business his dad is in, but he's been doing it. I don't see this guy inverting binary trees for dollars, ever. I don't see him in a high paying IT job for a long time, if ever.

Anyone have any advice I could pass along?

Mist · Oct 26, 2022

Fail faster.

Mist · Oct 26, 2022

Transfer credits to a community college to salvage an associates degree.

Fucker · Oct 26, 2022

Mist said:
Transfer credits to a community college to salvage an associates degree.

This. He isn't ready for college, so no point in wasting time and money. Get the AA and perhaps return later when more mature.

Control · Oct 27, 2022

Break said:
Someone I know, let's call him Dan, early 20's, is in college working towards their bachelors' degree. If you ask me, he never showed very much aptitude toward their chosen career field, something in IT. He's failed some classes, one multiple times, and the college made him take a year off but eventually allowed him to resume taking classes again. Things aren't going very well once again, he's apparently in danger of failing one of the classes they've failed at I think twice before so this would be his third time.

He needs 19 credits to graduate... in a field he himself said he's not really interested in anymore, if he ever was. Becoming a drop out doesn't seem like an option. I think it's taken a huge toll on his mental health, he seems dejected every time I see him once or twice a year or so. He wants to finish badly, but he's going deeper in debt and I don't think he's been getting good advice from anyone. I'd like to try talking him into dropping out or at least changing majors, his dad owns his own business which he's working at part time and having a full time job there would be no problem, if he wants it. The problem is he hates the business his dad is in, but he's been doing it. I don't see this guy inverting binary trees for dollars, ever. I don't see him in a high paying IT job for a long time, if ever.

Anyone have any advice I could pass along?

Only 19 credits left? He's practically done. That's like one hard semester. I'm guessing it's just a lack of motivation to put forth the effort needed to get across the finish line. I'm as anti-college as you can get, but he just needs to suck it up and finish. Changing majors is just going add semesters and delay the same problem.

I would guess that working full time at a shitty entry level job for a year would make both college and his dad's business seem much more palatable, but since he was already forced out for a year, I'm not sure. I guess it depends on whether he spent that year doing something useful or just playing video games.

If you want to help him through it, I think the key would be finding a way to show him that his remaining classes are actually useful in helping him get the life he wants. It's really hard to do something that feels useless even if you know you should. Also, if there's some weird sticking point about the class he's failing (can't deal with the professor or whatever), have him find an equivalent at an online university and transfer it in. Just have him verify, ideally in writing, the transferability with his current school admins beforehand.

(edit: Also, good on you for trying to provide a noob some guidance!)

Seananigans · Oct 27, 2022

Break said:
Someone I know, let's call him Dan, early 20's, is in college working towards their bachelors' degree. If you ask me, he never showed very much aptitude toward their chosen career field, something in IT. He's failed some classes, one multiple times, and the college made him take a year off but eventually allowed him to resume taking classes again. Things aren't going very well once again, he's apparently in danger of failing one of the classes they've failed at I think twice before so this would be his third time.

He needs 19 credits to graduate... in a field he himself said he's not really interested in anymore, if he ever was. Becoming a drop out doesn't seem like an option. I think it's taken a huge toll on his mental health, he seems dejected every time I see him once or twice a year or so. He wants to finish badly, but he's going deeper in debt and I don't think he's been getting good advice from anyone. I'd like to try talking him into dropping out or at least changing majors, his dad owns his own business which he's working at part time and having a full time job there would be no problem, if he wants it. The problem is he hates the business his dad is in, but he's been doing it. I don't see this guy inverting binary trees for dollars, ever. I don't see him in a high paying IT job for a long time, if ever.

Anyone have any advice I could pass along?

I'd say Dan is doing just fine for modern academia, considering apparently his pronouns are he/they.

Only advice I have is to maybe work in a third one, something that will really catch the eye. He/they/bottom maybe.

Burren · Oct 28, 2022

Go to a tech school and learn something the world needs, like electrician, plumber, welder, etc. Already millions of people with useless higher education degrees doing fuck-all.

wormie · Oct 28, 2022

Not everyone is ready for college. He should take a break for a few years, work at his dads business and then come back and finish. Though if he isn't interested in his degree, why even bother?

Aldarion · Oct 28, 2022

Im echoing Mist and Control on this one.

If he had it in him to finish, he's literally one semester from being done. I'm guessing Dan ain't gonna do any more academic work.

Dan should find a way to salvage a degree with the credit he has in place. A lesser degree from his own institution may be the easiest but transferring to a community college and salvaging a degree that way is probably the best bet.

Sanrith Descartes · Oct 28, 2022

Break said:
Someone I know, let's call him Dan, early 20's, is in college working towards their bachelors' degree. If you ask me, he never showed very much aptitude toward their chosen career field, something in IT. He's failed some classes, one multiple times, and the college made him take a year off but eventually allowed him to resume taking classes again. Things aren't going very well once again, he's apparently in danger of failing one of the classes they've failed at I think twice before so this would be his third time.

He needs 19 credits to graduate... in a field he himself said he's not really interested in anymore, if he ever was. Becoming a drop out doesn't seem like an option. I think it's taken a huge toll on his mental health, he seems dejected every time I see him once or twice a year or so. He wants to finish badly, but he's going deeper in debt and I don't think he's been getting good advice from anyone. I'd like to try talking him into dropping out or at least changing majors, his dad owns his own business which he's working at part time and having a full time job there would be no problem, if he wants it. The problem is he hates the business his dad is in, but he's been doing it. I don't see this guy inverting binary trees for dollars, ever. I don't see him in a high paying IT job for a long time, if ever.

Anyone have any advice I could pass along?

I say this having run this rabbit four times. Two undergrad and two graduate all four while working full time.

What most folks are saying here is correct. College isnt for everyone. There is a mental component (especially for a 120 credit bachelors) and the last couple semesters can feel like the end of a marathon. It was tough for me the first time. The semester before the final semester of bachelors was the toughest for me. The final semester you can see the finish line and can catch a second wind.

There is zero, zero reason to fail the same class 3 times unless you are are flat out overmatched mentally for the curriculum. I saw kids fail Stats 1 and Calc for business majors multiple times. They had room temperature IQs and had no business in College trying to get a business degree.

Dan, after a forced year off, still cant finish. He needs to just walk away. Honestly, he isnt learning shit and just pissing money away. Those credits are probably good for 7-10 years. He should walk away and maybe down the road circle back and finish it when he is ready.

Kais · Oct 28, 2022

Transfer those credits before he racks up any more failed classes. I assume hes got the 101 staples and intros out of the way. A half decent student advisor at the local cc should be able to take that and get him right into some of the more interesting and hands on classes for welding, hvac. Either of those skillsets and he'll never be out of work unless he wants to be. An algebra/geometry refresher and he can get into drafting and cad. Or hook up with a reputable electrician or plumber. If he can stick it out the first couple years he has a higher celling than most bachelor degrees end up getting.

moonarchia · Oct 28, 2022

Yes, transfer them into an AS/AA ASAP to have something tangible to use while getting jobs. He will also have those credits forever in terms of going back later to resume BA/BS as well. Just get him focused on what he wanted the piece of paper for in the first place. Jobs will almost always take experience in lieu of paper, and will have multiple entry level positions that have no degree requirements. If you can read a script and have an IQ over room temperature you can do tech support for almost any company under the sun and work your way up from there.

But back to the important point, get him focused on his goals. School is not the only path to get there. He can wrap it up with an Associate's degree with what he has already done and use that as a starting point. If he wants to go back later he can, but it makes no real difference.

Borzak · Oct 29, 2022

When I went to school right before the last semester than required a course of 4 credit hours that was taken with nothing else that semester. Lot of people changed concentrations to environmental science cause it was easier and all their pervious course work fit it. No idea how far into their program they are already.

Burns · Oct 29, 2022

"You can get a degree in something you are interested in, or you can get a degree in something that makes good money. Less than 10% of people are going to be able to get both out of one degree."

Money isn't everything in life, but one should at least shoot for making around $75k+ after a few years in an industry. Depending on how much time you want to spend on trying to help him out, and if you think he will listen, come up with some options for jobs that makes at least $75K.

For example, an Airline or UPS pilot looked like a good career path (unfortunately for me, I get mild motion sickness unless I am always in control of the vehicle). They make over $75k fairly quickly into their career and the hours can be pretty good. Also, a high percentage of hot women that like to party may still work as Stewardesses.

Kithani · Oct 29, 2022

Burns said:
"You can get a degree in something you are interested in, or you can get a degree in something that makes good money. Less than 10% of people are going to be able to get both out of one degree."

Money isn't everything in life, but one should at least shoot for making around $75k+ after a few years in an industry. Depending on how much time you want to spend on trying to help him out, and if you think he will listen, come up with some options for jobs that makes at least $75K.

For example, an Airline or UPS pilot looked like a good career path (unfortunately for me, I get mild motion sickness unless I am always in control of the vehicle). They make over $75k fairly quickly into their career and the hours can be pretty good. Also, a high percentage of hot women that like to party may still work as Stewardesses.

I agree with a lot of what you said but your last paragraph was out there. I dunno how often you fly but stewardesses don’t look like the 70s these days lol

Burns · Oct 30, 2022

Kithani said:
I agree with a lot of what you said but your last paragraph was out there. I dunno how often you fly but stewardesses don’t look like the 70s these days lol

I haven't flown in a long time, but I would assume the quality of airline staff is dependent on the company and the location. Southwest used to have high quality staff and the crews based in Texas seemed to be over 50% attractive women as late as 10 years ago. I met a handful of Texas stewardesses that worked for AA and SW, in the 2000s, that were very attractive, and were also huge alcoholics.

Ugly women and the gays taking over air crews may also be an American problem, so a prospective young pilot could try to get on some of the international flights, if chasing tail was part of the appeal for the job.

Personally, I would rather just fly cargo and not deal with the public's bullshit. I have read that UPS has great benefits and corporate employees with FedEx may have a solid package as well.

Kobayashi · Oct 30, 2022

That's so close to being done. I would attempt one of the following just to finish out the degree, then look into a skilled trade if he truly hates the field.

1. Seek out easier professors on ratemyprofessor.com - that's what a lot of people did about 15 years ago at least.

2. Talk to a counselor and see if there is anything easier that he could transfer to with minimal credit loss. It's hard to know without the specific major, but if IT, maybe IT management?

3. Cut the courseload in half and hire tutors to make it through the classes he's struggling with.

Even if he never uses his degree, it still ticks a box that a lot of people still care about. I've got a friend with tons of practical experience who I've recommended at multiple companies. Every time they've said said he'd be perfect for the position until noticing he didn't have a bachelors. At that point they never even bothered to interview.

I think the associates degree is good advice just to protect some of the credit hours. I don't see any value in the degree though, at least in my field (engineering). I've worked with just as many techs with an associates as I have with people having some practical experience and a diploma.

BrutulTM · Oct 30, 2022

Working in Dad's business is not going to go well and his Dad would be an idiot to hire him. I work in an industry that passes businesses from parents to children all the time and the smart parents don't hire their kids until they have gone off on their own and succeeded at something for at least a few years, even if it's just working at Home Depot or something. Let them come back straight out of school is a recipe to let them never grow up. This kid is failing at the training wheels version of adulthood (college). He'll probably fail even harder at the real thing which will put his Dad in a horrible position of having to fire his own kid or else let all his other employees resent the hell out of him while he loses the company money. I'd tell him to join one of the "safe" branches of the military (air force or navy) and then if they are successful at motivating him he can continue his IT education there. If nothing else it will keep him busy for a few years in a respectable pursuit while he hopefully acquires enough maturity to contribute to society.

agripa · Oct 30, 2022

Break said:
Someone I know, let's call him Dan, early 20's, is in college working towards their bachelors' degree. If you ask me, he never showed very much aptitude toward their chosen career field, something in IT. He's failed some classes, one multiple times, and the college made him take a year off but eventually allowed him to resume taking classes again. Things aren't going very well once again, he's apparently in danger of failing one of the classes they've failed at I think twice before so this would be his third time.

He needs 19 credits to graduate... in a field he himself said he's not really interested in anymore, if he ever was. Becoming a drop out doesn't seem like an option. I think it's taken a huge toll on his mental health, he seems dejected every time I see him once or twice a year or so. He wants to finish badly, but he's going deeper in debt and I don't think he's been getting good advice from anyone. I'd like to try talking him into dropping out or at least changing majors, his dad owns his own business which he's working at part time and having a full time job there would be no problem, if he wants it. The problem is he hates the business his dad is in, but he's been doing it. I don't see this guy inverting binary trees for dollars, ever. I don't see him in a high paying IT job for a long time, if ever.

Anyone have any advice I could pass along?

Have him join a service branch to show him what he does not want to do in life, he will be ready to try again in 4 years with more motivation.

Sanrith Descartes · Oct 30, 2022

Kobayashi said:
That's so close to being done. I would attempt one of the following just to finish out the degree, then look into a skilled trade if he truly hates the field.

1. Seek out easier professors on ratemyprofessor.com - that's what a lot of people did about 15 years ago at least.

2. Talk to a counselor and see if there is anything easier that he could transfer to with minimal credit loss. It's hard to know without the specific major, but if IT, maybe IT management?

3. Cut the courseload in half and hire tutors to make it through the classes he's struggling with.

Even if he never uses his degree, it still ticks a box that a lot of people still care about. I've got a friend with tons of practical experience who I've recommended at multiple companies. Every time they've said said he'd be perfect for the position until noticing he didn't have a bachelors. At that point they never even bothered to interview.

I think the associates degree is good advice just to protect some of the credit hours. I don't see any value in the degree though, at least in my field (engineering). I've worked with just as many techs with an associates as I have with people having some practical experience and a diploma.

A bachelor's today is like a high school diploma was 30 years ago. Its like the minimum companies look for to fill positions for non-wrench turners.

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