All things Brandon Sanderson
- Thread starter Arative
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Intrinsic
Person of Whiteness
- 15,215
- 13,595
Same. WoR and WoK were great and exciting, but at this point it feels like he’s writing to get this out of his system and prove something. I’ll excuse him his magnum opus as long as he keeps producing all the awesome “side” content.
Ritley
Bronze Baron of the Realm
- 16,017
- 35,069
Just finished, by far the worst in the series so far. I didn’t even dislike Oathbringer as much as some here, but RoW is simply filler.
There are definitely some important parts, but those could have literally all happened in part 1 and then moved on. Devoting most of the book to Kaladin being a whiny bitch and Shallan being a retarded schizo was a poor choice. Especially considering thats basically already the plot of Oathbringer.
There are definitely some important parts, but those could have literally all happened in part 1 and then moved on. Devoting most of the book to Kaladin being a whiny bitch and Shallan being a retarded schizo was a poor choice. Especially considering thats basically already the plot of Oathbringer.
Last edited:
- 2
Finished the book yesterday, wanted to marinate on it and really see how i felt.
Pro's: Kaladin is on an upward trend now. He should have been "fixed" but as long as he gets back in the game and is done with moping about it will be a net positive.
I personally enjoyed the tower ( urithiu or however its spelled). I would have rather liked a more guerilla warfare / subterfuge from the good guys but it was a decent story.
Shallan is closer to becoming ONE character.
Con's: I give zero fucks about venli and eshonai. I don't need the time line of events from their PoV. A simple exposition of what was guiding them / motivating them would have been enough. However he chose to just dump and dump more cosmere stuff through these chapters.
The book is filler and just a data dump. This is the winters heart of the series. Its a grueling slog with spats of really important stuff ( info not story ) mixed in. You could literally read the last 400 pages and not miss too much.
To much focus on the various fused. He is trying too hard to get the readers to sympathize with who he has established as the enemy.
A giant middle finger to the ending. Like for real. You deprived everyone of a great middle series climax.
Pro's: Kaladin is on an upward trend now. He should have been "fixed" but as long as he gets back in the game and is done with moping about it will be a net positive.
I personally enjoyed the tower ( urithiu or however its spelled). I would have rather liked a more guerilla warfare / subterfuge from the good guys but it was a decent story.
Shallan is closer to becoming ONE character.
Con's: I give zero fucks about venli and eshonai. I don't need the time line of events from their PoV. A simple exposition of what was guiding them / motivating them would have been enough. However he chose to just dump and dump more cosmere stuff through these chapters.
The book is filler and just a data dump. This is the winters heart of the series. Its a grueling slog with spats of really important stuff ( info not story ) mixed in. You could literally read the last 400 pages and not miss too much.
To much focus on the various fused. He is trying too hard to get the readers to sympathize with who he has established as the enemy.
A giant middle finger to the ending. Like for real. You deprived everyone of a great middle series climax.
- 2
Furry
🌭🍔🇺🇦✌️SLAVA UKRAINI!✌️🇺🇦🍔🌭
- 22,268
- 29,269
I'll give it a try because I go through so many books while working. That said, I'm gonna be flopping this one at the ass end of my queue of books, rather than cutting it to the front like I would with a winner. Will come back with my valuable opinion in about a month or so.
Aazrael
Avatar of War Slayer
- 3,508
- 12,831
Listening to the audiobook right now but as others said. Nothing is happening. Same whiny characters that never seem to do anything. I just dont feel this series is for me.
I just listened to a 2nd run of malazan and enjoyed that one just as much as the first time. But stormlight, not so much. I just dont find any likable characters as of yet.
I just listened to a 2nd run of malazan and enjoyed that one just as much as the first time. But stormlight, not so much. I just dont find any likable characters as of yet.
Ritley
Bronze Baron of the Realm
- 16,017
- 35,069
Eh, Kaladin was a good character in book 1 and book 2. I’ve always liked Adolin, and Dalinar has mostly been a good character. I’ve never really liked Shallan though.
The flashback focus of book 4 being Venli was a mistake though, no one gives a fuck about her.
- 1
Ritley
Bronze Baron of the Realm
- 16,017
- 35,069
It’s mostly cut of the same cloth as 3. It’s not bad and is still interesting throughout most of it, but it has some serious pacing issues (as well as character struggles that are just plain fucking tiresome to still see as the character development focus 4,000 pages later)
The venli flashbacks are a drag, but at least it doesn’t take up many pages.
- 1
Intrinsic
Person of Whiteness
- 15,215
- 13,595
When I was flying back from vacation the guy across the aisle was reading Way of Kings, while Skyward was on my Kindle and I had the hardback Oathbringer in my bag. Almost struck up a conversation with him but nothing good was going to come of that. He would have asked my opinion and didn't want to disappoint the guy.
He put down WoK and fell asleep about 20 min in to the flight.
He put down WoK and fell asleep about 20 min in to the flight.
- 3
- 11,088
- 58,284
OK, I went back and reread a few bits and went over a couple of things in my mind. It's all extremely spoilery, so don't click if you haven't read it.
Random thoughts:
-Taravangian is Odium now? That wasn't foreshadowed well at all IMO. Granted, I see why that is, it was supposed to be a huge shock or twist. But to me, it played out like "Here's a short scene and now Rayse is dead and we have a new Odium! On to the rest of the denouement!". I was just like, that's it? The text literally says "And then Taravangian ascended to become Odium". THAT'S how you describe someone taking up THE most powerful and 'terrible' of the 16 shards of Adonalsium? What a wasted opportunity to expand on something that should be a grand or significant event. It's been a while since I read Mistborn, but I seem to remember it being more of an event when one of the shardholders dies. Something visible to those witnessing the event (Szeth was RIGHT THERE and didn't see or feel ANYTHING? Come on.)
-In one of the chapter epigraphs, the ones where Sazed(Harmony) is replying to (I believe) Hoid's letter, he mentions something along the lines of "Whoever is holding Odium's power isn't doing a very good job of it". Now that someone of Taravangian's ruthlessness and intellect is in charge, things are going to get much worse I think. Apparently Cultivation planned this event through prophecy? Did she not foresee what would happen if Taravangian got it and that that would be a VERY bad thing?
-Sanderson seems to be going along the lines of Shards almost having a will/intent of their own. That says to me that the best way to neutralize a shard that is pure hatred and fury combined with the ability to carry out that fury, would be to force someone to hold Odium and another shard that would come together to neutralize that hatred. Similar to how Preservation and Ruin combined produce Harmony, Odium combined with something near its opposite would produce a different intent and neutralize the threat posed by Odium alone. Of the shards mentioned so far, I would guess Mercy would be the best opposite to Odium, but there's 2 shards that have yet to be named. Of course, since Odium wouldn't want this to happen, you'd need to somehow manipulate both shards coming together and then kill both shardholders somehow while also having 1 person ready and able to pick them both up. No problemo!
-The amount of filler/waste in this book is shameful. I went back and looked, and I'd put the climax being the point where Kaladin goes into the tower's atrium to face the Pursuer. That starts at about 90% of the way through the book. From that point, to the point where Kaladin comes back and the fighting stops I believe lasts about 2, maybe 3%. That's IT? REALLY? Fuck off with that shit. It's also interrupted by Dalinar's visit with Ishar.
-There's 10 days between the end of this and the contest of champions? I think Sanderson has painted himself into a corner here. Either book 5 is going to be mostly flashbacks for Szeth, or this contest is going to be a mere prelude to something else. This seems like something that should have been built up to more than 10 days, assuming it's not a red herring/misdirection.
-Kaladin's ability to 'project' shardplate armor on anyone else seems like a pretty OP ability. They're also windspren, and windspren have some connection or relationship to honorspren which isn't clear to me yet. If I had to guess, the equivalent relationship for Bondsmiths was gloryspren, as those were the prevalent ones at the climax of Oathbringer.
-Kaladin losing the scars on his forehead seems significant. Storywise I hope it means he can finally drop the rest of the depression side of his character, or at least minimize it. I get that it's his weakness or burden to overcome, but god DAMN is that shit tiresome to read about. I almost gave up 50% through Way of Kings because of that very thing. It just makes reading through it a real slog a lot of the time.
-I liked that Wit/Hoid was featured much more prominently in this one. I've always thought he was the most mysterious character and to find out more about what he's up to is great. Plus he's boning Jasnah apparently? niiiice.jpg. The scene where he and Jasnah put the one highprince in his place as an example was great IMO.
-Szeth should have had more to do than stand around in disguise. Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.
-Venli and Eshonai I don't find to be sympathetic characters at all. Venli especially. I don't understand why either of them would need their own book. If you absolutely MUST do one of the singers to show the rise of the Willshapers and why they don't want to bond humans, Rlain would have been the better choice to expand on than Venli IMO. Or just don't do it at all.
-Sanderson mentioned cymatics in the first book iirc, and that pays off now with the relationship with sound and the various investitures on Roshar. Cool concept IMO.
-I wonder how the various metals (zinc, aluminum, etc) are going to figure on Roshar going forward. I mean, we're all waiting for someone to combine the magic from the various worlds into some OP combination and wreck people. I'm not the only one right? Kaladin's getting his ass kicked, just about to lose, but Hoid shows up with a bead of Lerasium and some metal shavings in a vial, "Drink this!" BOOM, Rosharan surges + allomancy ftw!
-The Shallan personality stuff is just... weird. I kind of just ignored it all because I was focused on her trying to solve the Mraize problem. Do we really need all that? Maybe Sanderson is foreshadowing some method to repair mental wounds that people will figure out and then be able to fix the madness of the Heralds, or even the madness of the Fused using those techniques or abilities. It's pretty tedious to read about though...
-I would have liked a few more Shadesmar mysteries explored. Just going to the Honorspren fortress to hand out without going anywhere else or finding anymore worldhoppers when there was so much time spent on other shit is annoying IMO.
-I honestly think the next book will be better. I think Sanderson has done most of the setup he can think of with this book, and Stormlight Archive is set to be in 2 5 book pieces, right? So the next one is going to be the one where tons of shit happens and it ends on some huge cliffhanger I'm guessing. After that it's supposed to skip forward in time? Who knows though. Maybe he'll work on more mistborn stuff after that.
-Sanderson has earned our patience to deal with a miss like this one IMO. The guy is certainly better than about 99% of authors when it comes to pushing out content and having that content be consistently above average at the least.
-Taravangian is Odium now? That wasn't foreshadowed well at all IMO. Granted, I see why that is, it was supposed to be a huge shock or twist. But to me, it played out like "Here's a short scene and now Rayse is dead and we have a new Odium! On to the rest of the denouement!". I was just like, that's it? The text literally says "And then Taravangian ascended to become Odium". THAT'S how you describe someone taking up THE most powerful and 'terrible' of the 16 shards of Adonalsium? What a wasted opportunity to expand on something that should be a grand or significant event. It's been a while since I read Mistborn, but I seem to remember it being more of an event when one of the shardholders dies. Something visible to those witnessing the event (Szeth was RIGHT THERE and didn't see or feel ANYTHING? Come on.)
-In one of the chapter epigraphs, the ones where Sazed(Harmony) is replying to (I believe) Hoid's letter, he mentions something along the lines of "Whoever is holding Odium's power isn't doing a very good job of it". Now that someone of Taravangian's ruthlessness and intellect is in charge, things are going to get much worse I think. Apparently Cultivation planned this event through prophecy? Did she not foresee what would happen if Taravangian got it and that that would be a VERY bad thing?
-Sanderson seems to be going along the lines of Shards almost having a will/intent of their own. That says to me that the best way to neutralize a shard that is pure hatred and fury combined with the ability to carry out that fury, would be to force someone to hold Odium and another shard that would come together to neutralize that hatred. Similar to how Preservation and Ruin combined produce Harmony, Odium combined with something near its opposite would produce a different intent and neutralize the threat posed by Odium alone. Of the shards mentioned so far, I would guess Mercy would be the best opposite to Odium, but there's 2 shards that have yet to be named. Of course, since Odium wouldn't want this to happen, you'd need to somehow manipulate both shards coming together and then kill both shardholders somehow while also having 1 person ready and able to pick them both up. No problemo!
-The amount of filler/waste in this book is shameful. I went back and looked, and I'd put the climax being the point where Kaladin goes into the tower's atrium to face the Pursuer. That starts at about 90% of the way through the book. From that point, to the point where Kaladin comes back and the fighting stops I believe lasts about 2, maybe 3%. That's IT? REALLY? Fuck off with that shit. It's also interrupted by Dalinar's visit with Ishar.
-There's 10 days between the end of this and the contest of champions? I think Sanderson has painted himself into a corner here. Either book 5 is going to be mostly flashbacks for Szeth, or this contest is going to be a mere prelude to something else. This seems like something that should have been built up to more than 10 days, assuming it's not a red herring/misdirection.
-Kaladin's ability to 'project' shardplate armor on anyone else seems like a pretty OP ability. They're also windspren, and windspren have some connection or relationship to honorspren which isn't clear to me yet. If I had to guess, the equivalent relationship for Bondsmiths was gloryspren, as those were the prevalent ones at the climax of Oathbringer.
-Kaladin losing the scars on his forehead seems significant. Storywise I hope it means he can finally drop the rest of the depression side of his character, or at least minimize it. I get that it's his weakness or burden to overcome, but god DAMN is that shit tiresome to read about. I almost gave up 50% through Way of Kings because of that very thing. It just makes reading through it a real slog a lot of the time.
-I liked that Wit/Hoid was featured much more prominently in this one. I've always thought he was the most mysterious character and to find out more about what he's up to is great. Plus he's boning Jasnah apparently? niiiice.jpg. The scene where he and Jasnah put the one highprince in his place as an example was great IMO.
-Szeth should have had more to do than stand around in disguise. Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.
-Venli and Eshonai I don't find to be sympathetic characters at all. Venli especially. I don't understand why either of them would need their own book. If you absolutely MUST do one of the singers to show the rise of the Willshapers and why they don't want to bond humans, Rlain would have been the better choice to expand on than Venli IMO. Or just don't do it at all.
-Sanderson mentioned cymatics in the first book iirc, and that pays off now with the relationship with sound and the various investitures on Roshar. Cool concept IMO.
-I wonder how the various metals (zinc, aluminum, etc) are going to figure on Roshar going forward. I mean, we're all waiting for someone to combine the magic from the various worlds into some OP combination and wreck people. I'm not the only one right? Kaladin's getting his ass kicked, just about to lose, but Hoid shows up with a bead of Lerasium and some metal shavings in a vial, "Drink this!" BOOM, Rosharan surges + allomancy ftw!
-The Shallan personality stuff is just... weird. I kind of just ignored it all because I was focused on her trying to solve the Mraize problem. Do we really need all that? Maybe Sanderson is foreshadowing some method to repair mental wounds that people will figure out and then be able to fix the madness of the Heralds, or even the madness of the Fused using those techniques or abilities. It's pretty tedious to read about though...
-I would have liked a few more Shadesmar mysteries explored. Just going to the Honorspren fortress to hand out without going anywhere else or finding anymore worldhoppers when there was so much time spent on other shit is annoying IMO.
-I honestly think the next book will be better. I think Sanderson has done most of the setup he can think of with this book, and Stormlight Archive is set to be in 2 5 book pieces, right? So the next one is going to be the one where tons of shit happens and it ends on some huge cliffhanger I'm guessing. After that it's supposed to skip forward in time? Who knows though. Maybe he'll work on more mistborn stuff after that.
-Sanderson has earned our patience to deal with a miss like this one IMO. The guy is certainly better than about 99% of authors when it comes to pushing out content and having that content be consistently above average at the least.
Last edited:
- 1
- 1
Furry
🌭🍔🇺🇦✌️SLAVA UKRAINI!✌️🇺🇦🍔🌭
- 22,268
- 29,269
Okay so I'm about a third of the way into this. It feels like im reading a guide on dealing with your retarded friends that have depression, or some angsty teen drama novel written by a moron. There's been a degree of this sort of stuff in every sanderson book, and especially in the characters in this series. I think his response to the criticism has been to double down. It feels like I'm putting myself through some sort of masochism through overly verbose pointless text when I try to read this thing.
It's on par with the hair twirling in wheel of time, except even in that story the characters just stagnated and wallowed. It feels like the main characters of this book are actively getting more retarded and less empathetic as the story goes. Who wants to read a hero story where the main characters are on a constant path of regression in the face of adversity, or their personalities seem alien and pliable to fit the scene he wants to give, with no consistency at all past their annoyingly overplayed self-loathing. I'm a tepid fan of Sanderson's writing to begin with and definitely find his writing to have faults, but I've also admitted it has its merits and can be enjoyable. This is the first book from him that I consider trash-tier.
Let ya know if my opinions change in the next 2/3s.
It's on par with the hair twirling in wheel of time, except even in that story the characters just stagnated and wallowed. It feels like the main characters of this book are actively getting more retarded and less empathetic as the story goes. Who wants to read a hero story where the main characters are on a constant path of regression in the face of adversity, or their personalities seem alien and pliable to fit the scene he wants to give, with no consistency at all past their annoyingly overplayed self-loathing. I'm a tepid fan of Sanderson's writing to begin with and definitely find his writing to have faults, but I've also admitted it has its merits and can be enjoyable. This is the first book from him that I consider trash-tier.
Let ya know if my opinions change in the next 2/3s.
- 2
- 1
Malkav
French Madman
- 2,686
- 1,583
They really need to resolve Kaladin and Shallan's issues at some point, because yeah, it's dragging on.
I get it, he wants to show that it's a challenge for them to reach each Ideal because of their baggage. Let's be fair, if they were more balanced in their head and heroic, they wouldn't have issues getting their Radiant levels up. But it's getting a bit overplayed after 4 books.
I get it, he wants to show that it's a challenge for them to reach each Ideal because of their baggage. Let's be fair, if they were more balanced in their head and heroic, they wouldn't have issues getting their Radiant levels up. But it's getting a bit overplayed after 4 books.
- 1
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
- 17,324
- 4,839
I think I'm about half way through. The mental health stuff doesn't bother me, it's fine, and easy to understand given the horrors they've all been through. I find the Singer flashbacks boring though and the Taravangian stuff is just ugggghhhh yes we know get on with it man. The Sadeas stuff was the same way, gloating antagonists that everyone knows are up to no good, it's just exhausting. Adolin killing Sadeas is the best thing these books have done, and he should have killed Taravangian too. Beyond that just the entire concept of the diagram and the "smart" days and "dumb" ones is stupid and there are logical flaws in there that anyone could see, much less some uber smart dude invested with power by a demigod. I hate everything about Taravangian.
I like Sanderson a lot, the Mistborn stuff is my favorite, but I find with this cosmere shit he has a habit of overcomplicating shit. Part of me applauds that, awesome he's building out this super complex world, and part of me would like him to jerk himself off in an appendix or something and just tell the fucking story. Overall I like the book so far though.
I like Sanderson a lot, the Mistborn stuff is my favorite, but I find with this cosmere shit he has a habit of overcomplicating shit. Part of me applauds that, awesome he's building out this super complex world, and part of me would like him to jerk himself off in an appendix or something and just tell the fucking story. Overall I like the book so far though.
- 2
Arative
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,063
- 4,771
The whole idea of being invested though is you have to be broken in some way. You have cracks in your soul to allow the power to seep in I think is what Sanderson has said
Furry
🌭🍔🇺🇦✌️SLAVA UKRAINI!✌️🇺🇦🍔🌭
- 22,268
- 29,269
Curious where you developed this idea? I've seen nothing of the sort, though people have had their powers awaken in trying situations, but I've never recalled that being a requirement and can think of plenty of examples which seem to contradict this idea pretty directly, especially with the concept of breaths as investiture.
Anyways, reading on in depression fantasy, my depression take on how stupid this shit is. Some depression-spoilers to 50% in.
Kaladin recovers enough from his depression to function, so someone asks him to find their depressed relative who keeps tying to off themselves. Upon finding them he's so upset about how their treated he immediately comes up with a modern psychiatric method for treating depression and founds a depression hospital. After a few thousand pages of chars talking about how depressed they are, enemies come to Urithiru with their depression bomb and kaladin just thinks its more depression as normal, while all the other knights radiant are knocked into depression comas. Right when Kaladin is going to step up and save everyone his father accuses him of killing his little brother and he goes into depression shock and instead we get treated to him scurrying around with blankets and begging enemy peons to stop hurting him.
Of course, this is skipping over the total shitfest that is shalon's story. Adolin's story is the most interesting stuff so far, and at least half of it is him fretting about his wardrobe. What utter trash this book is.
Of course, this is skipping over the total shitfest that is shalon's story. Adolin's story is the most interesting stuff so far, and at least half of it is him fretting about his wardrobe. What utter trash this book is.
- 2