Ancient Civilizations

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Chris

Chris

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I've chosen one quote, but there are multiple sections describing Atlantis as a port city on the sea:

Leaving the palace and passing out across the three you came to a wall which began at the sea and went all round: this was everywhere distant fifty stadia from the largest zone or harbour, and enclosed the whole, the ends meeting at the mouth of the channel which led to the sea. The entire area was densely crowded with habitations; and the canal and the largest of the harbours were full of vessels and merchants coming from all parts, who, from their numbers, kept up a multitudinous sound of human voices, and din and clatter of all sorts night and day.

I have described the city and the environs of the ancient palace nearly in the words of Solon
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So for it to be the Richart Structure, sea levels rose 400m and stayed there for an extended amount of time for maritime trade to develop. There is 200m sea level rise worth of ice on Earth.

So now we have to talk about if an entire content can rise 200-400m over 10,000 years.

Before we do that, can you guys take a step back and understand that you are arguing that the legendary underwater city of Atlantis is on top of a mountain?

Plato said an unpassable mud flat on the sea was left behind, not a wiped clean mountain. You can't take him at face value for some things but not others.
 
Araysar

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You guys really need to rethink your theories when Chris Chris comes across as the level headed one
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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Chris said:
I've chosen one quote, but there are multiple sections describing Atlantis as a port city on the sea:



So for it to be the Richart Structure, sea levels rose 400m and stayed there for an extended amount of time for maritime trade to develop. There is 200m sea level rise worth of ice on Earth.

So now we have to talk about if an entire content can rise 200-400m over 10,000 years.

Before we do that, can you guys take a step back and understand that you are arguing that the legendary underwater city of Atlantis is on top of a mountain?

Plato said an unpassable mud flat on the sea was left behind, not a wiped clean mountain. You can't take him at face value for some things but not others.
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i dont actually care if this is Plato's Atlantis, i'm more interested in the flood event, i am interested in why the area the Richat sits was called the Atlantis Mountains on maps. i want to know what the Richat was before the cataclysmic event. ancient stories like these tend to get embellished over time. it wasnt written for 8-10k years. so it was told in legends around campfires. the Atlantis written by Plato is not going to be the actual Atlantis in every detail. if that actually was the "Atlantis" that Plato based his story on.
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

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Chris said:
I'm not disputing that the Sahara could have been full of lakes and rivers 12k years ago, from rain fall.

I'm disputing that the Med can flow uphill into the Sahara and flood it. If it's flooding the Sahara it's flooding everything else and this is a time period in which sea levels were lower not higher. The water would just flow out by Gibraltar, even of it was blocked up it would still be the path of least resistance.

I'm posting elevation maps to show you that water would have to be flowing hundreds of meters upwards to get to the Richart Structure.
Click to expand...

What's the highest elevation lake in the world now?

Screenshot_20230723_195341_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
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Rajaah

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Chris said:
It's literally on top of a big hill. It would have been a lake yes, but a lake on top of a 400m hill that is the tallest or close to tallest nearby.

You don't build your capital city trading port miles inland on top of a hill with no navigable river because hills are where rivers start as tiny steams.

2000 foot tall tsunamis are not going to be originating in the Med and travelling that far, you are beliving in magic and miracles to make the evidence fit.

Here is a real tsunami that happened in the time period and helped flood Doggerland for reference, it was 100 foot high max: Storegga Slide - Wikipedia

Please guys, look at the elevation map I posted and engage your own brains about how water flows.
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Any number of things could have caused the Great Flood. A meteor might have landed in the Atlantic or Indian oceans. There might have been a polar shift, which is kind of like having a full bathtub on wheels come to an abrupt stop. The Mediterranean might have been involved. We really don't know what caused it.

You have a point that a city on a tall hill wouldn't be the best trading hub. So perhaps it was chosen for its defensive position? Elevated terrain with a mountain at its back, multiple moats due to the 3 concentric rings. Would have been very hard to invade, most likely. Perhaps it was someone's capitol, and thus a trading hub by default rather than by design. It's all speculation at this point.
 
Araysar

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Rajaah said:
Any number of things could have caused the Great Flood. A meteor might have landed in the Atlantic or Indian oceans. There might have been a polar shift, which is kind of like having a full bathtub on wheels come to an abrupt stop. The Mediterranean might have been involved. We really don't know what caused it.

You have a point that a city on a tall hill wouldn't be the best trading hub. So perhaps it was chosen for its defensive position? Elevated terrain with a mountain at its back, multiple moats due to the 3 concentric rings. Would have been very hard to invade, most likely. Perhaps it was someone's capitol, and thus a trading hub by default rather than by design. It's all speculation at this point.
Click to expand...

How can it be a trading hub when there is zero trace of trade, and zero trace of hub?
 
Araysar

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Chukzombi said:
i dont actually care if this is Plato's Atlantis, i'm more interested in the flood event, i am interested in why the area the Richat sits was called the Atlantis Mountains on maps. i want to know what the Richat was before the cataclysmic event. ancient stories like these tend to get embellished over time. it wasnt written for 8-10k years. so it was told in legends around campfires. the Atlantis written by Plato is not going to be the actual Atlantis in every detail. if that actually was the "Atlantis" that Plato based his story on.
Click to expand...

Atlantis being by sea or not is a pretty big detail. In fact, it would be the biggest detail since the whole premise of Atlantis's design is based on it being a coastal city, so this dismissal of Chris's point is just deflection

P.S. they were not called the Atlantis mountains, they're called the Atlas mountains
 
Araysar

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Edaw said:
Acheulean stone tools

www.sciencedirect.com

Statistical inference of earlier origins for the first flaked stone technologies

Identifying when hominins first produced Lomekwian, Oldowan, and Acheulean technologies is vital to multiple avenues of human origins research. Yet, l…
www.sciencedirect.com www.sciencedirect.com
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LMAO, those tools predate Atlantis and in fact support my point. Why is there still a trace of stone age tools at the Richat site but zero trace of Atlantis that supposedly came afterwards?
 
Chris

Chris

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Rajaah said:
You have a point that a city on a tall hill wouldn't be the best trading hub. So perhaps it was chosen for its defensive position? Elevated terrain with a mountain at its back, multiple moats due to the 3 concentric rings. Would have been very hard to invade, most likely. Perhaps it was someone's capitol, and thus a trading hub by default rather than by design. It's all speculation at this point.
Click to expand...
How do you know that Atlantis had 3 concentric rings?
 
mkopec

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Ive seen shows that date the huge tsunamis to the recession of the ice age and great ice dams breaking releasing unfathomable masses of water.

Outburst flood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Around ~15K years ago.
 
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Chukzombi

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mkopec said:
Ive seen shows that date the huge tsunamis to the recession of the ice age and great ice dams breaking releasing unfathomable masses of water.

Outburst flood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Around ~15K years ago.
Click to expand...
as time goes further back, things get sketchier. the 12k date could be 13k or earlier. the massive flood could be lined up with this major event that happened that released all this ice. another weird thing is South American pre-colombian civilizations. . it really sucks with stone works because we have no way to date the actual cut stones. so they end up getting attributed to the more recent civs from 3000-500 years . even though those people said they were already there when they arrived. its all a big mess and very frustrating when trying to prove anything. but i rather have them shrug their shoulders and say "no idea" than just say, uh yeah, those guys were here. they did it. people have been chilling in the americas for 25000 years. anything could have happened in that time. Gobekli Tepe which is 13000 years old was buried for some reason. it wasnt ruins. shit is still there just put under ground.
 
Chris

Chris

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mkopec said:
Ive seen shows that date the huge tsunamis to the recession of the ice age and great ice dams breaking releasing unfathomable masses of water.

Outburst flood - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Around ~15K years ago.
Click to expand...
Which glaciated area had an outburst that hit the Sahara? Was Europe and the Med iced over!?

You are grasping at straws now.

You can't belive geologists when they say it happened in North America then ignore them when they say the ice wasn't that far south in Europe. That's charey picking.
 
Rajaah

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Araysar said:
These deluges would have been similar to what is being argued in regards to Western Sahara but somehow RIchat survives all of that intact?
Click to expand...

Araysar said:
Yes, but the point being is that if there was a civ at Richat that was a large trading center, there would have been artifacts to be found at Richat that would speak to that. Broken pottery, buildings, something. It doesnt matter who they were trading with. But there is nothing there except prehistoric stone tool artifacts.

So you're being asked to believe that artifacts that would predate Atlantis somehow survived in the same spot where there is zero trace of Atlantean civilization that would supposedly follow after.
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"How did Richat survive a cataclysmic flood?"
"If there were anything there, there would be stuff to find at Richat"

Those things kind of answer each other. Whatever there was to find could have been completely scoured away. The rings (raised and indented) remained because they were massive constructs, while everything else got completely destroyed or run off. Also there hasn't been any real major excavation that I know of around the Richat. Certainly not to the level that we can safely say there's nothing there.

They're finding prehistoric stone artifacts at that site because prehistoric stuff was already buried there when it got scoured. If those artifacts are from, say, 50,000 BC they'll be at a much lower strata than the surface town's debris, which likely got pushed into depths of what's now the Sahara. Or the Atlantic, depending on which way this wave was going. So I'd expect prehistoric artifacts to be largely intact at the site.

"No known Atlantean coin" is a good point, but if my hunch is right that they were a thing 17,000 to 12,000 years ago, then who knows what monetary system existed then if any. Could have been on a pure barter system, I don't know. It's fun to think of them as an advanced society maybe exceeding ours, but I'd err much more on the side that they were agrarian and relatively simple. Probably a similar level of technology to Athens at its height, at best.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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Rajaah said:
"How did Richat survive a cataclysmic flood?"
"If there were anything there, there would be stuff to find at Richat"

Those things kind of answer each other. Whatever there was to find could have been completely scoured away. The rings (raised and indented) remained because they were massive constructs, while everything else got completely destroyed or run off. Also there hasn't been any real major excavation that I know of around the Richat. Certainly not to the level that we can safely say there's nothing there.

They're finding prehistoric stone artifacts at that site because prehistoric stuff was already buried there when it got scoured. If those artifacts are from, say, 50,000 BC they'll be at a much lower strata than the surface town's debris, which likely got pushed into depths of what's now the Sahara. Or the Atlantic, depending on which way this wave was going. So I'd expect prehistoric artifacts to be largely intact at the site.

"No known Atlantean coin" is a good point, but if my hunch is right that they were a thing 17,000 to 12,000 years ago, then who knows what monetary system existed then if any. Could have been on a pure barter system, I don't know. It's fun to think of them as an advanced society maybe exceeding ours, but I'd err much more on the side that they were agrarian and relatively simple. Probably a similar level of technology to Athens at its height, at best.
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of course it would be a barter system. slaves and gold for more slaves and more gold. Africa has been a slavery hub for a long time. they are still selling people in Mauritania. also lets not forget that place is a war torn shithole. what dainty scientist, let alone a female scientist is going to risk their life over there just for some old stuff? those boogies have been pillaging whatever they could find for the last 10,000 years. if you really want to find something decent. start at the bottom of the runoff in the ocean at least you got a chance of finding some statues and relics.
 
Rajaah

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Araysar said:
Atlantis being by sea or not is a pretty big detail. In fact, it would be the biggest detail since the whole premise of Atlantis's design is based on it being a coastal city, so this dismissal of Chris's point is just deflection

P.S. they were not called the Atlantis mountains, they're called the Atlas mountains
Click to expand...

There are several old maps that refer to the mountain range as "Atlantae", or have a lake depicted there with "Atlantae" near it. I've seen them too and they're a big question mark.

As for Atlantis being a coastal city, maybe at the time that WAS the coast, and another landform pushed against it? Maybe that caused an earthquake and a resulting flood. I don't really see any evidence of dramatic plate tectonics though, aside from the east side of Africa trying to break off of it now. Just throwing ideas out.
 
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