Ancient Civilizations

Kharzette said:

All of those big walls look like one of the theories postulates; like a bag was filled and set in place, then hardened and the bag material decayed away. Would be easy enough to do with concrete, but many of these walls are identified as a form of granite right?

Has anyone tried melting down silicates to get a liquified granite of some sort? Just from reading on wiki, it seems like it could be made via a recipe and high heat.

Seems like walls could be built by piling wet clay as a mold for the blocks, then pouring in the molten granite recipe and letting it cool before moving to the next, recycling the usable clay for the next mold.

The round nubbins protrusions might even be steam explosions from the wet clay.

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nobody really knows exactly what happened for those rocks to look like that and fit so closely together. if anyone has ever bought marshmallows for a barbecue and they end up getting left out in the summer sun. you know how the marshmallows can get. thats how those stones look. like they got hot and smushed together.

Saw a good debunking of a global pre younger dryas civilisation today. Genetics.

We can calculate who is related to whom, I've got a bunch of 4th cousins on ancestry.com even. We can also do this to track migration patterns to a certain extent in prehistory.

So how come no links are showing up in the genetic record? Are "they" also covering up in the field of genetics?

When a true theory comes up, it should match other fields of study. For example Plate Tectonics was a ridiculous theory people mocked... until it was found that every field of geology matched it.

Do we even have any 30k year dna to compare with? I think R1a is the usual guess at an atlantean ancestry haplogroup. That spread out from either the caucases or the steppe (trading posts?).

Chris said:

Saw a good debunking of a global pre younger dryas civilisation today. Genetics.

We can calculate who is related to whom, I've got a bunch of 4th cousins on ancestry.com even. We can also do this to track migration patterns to a certain extent in prehistory.

So how come no links are showing up in the genetic record? Are "they" also covering up in the field of genetics?

When a true theory comes up, it should match other fields of study. For example Plate Tectonics was a ridiculous theory people mocked... until it was found that every field of geology matched it.

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I guess Im being dense. Can you ELI5 please.

Kharzette said:

All of those big walls look like one of the theories postulates; like a bag was filled and set in place, then hardened and the bag material decayed away. Would be easy enough to do with concrete, but many of these walls are identified as a form of granite right?

Has anyone tried melting down silicates to get a liquified granite of some sort? Just from reading on wiki, it seems like it could be made via a recipe and high heat.

Seems like walls could be built by piling wet clay as a mold for the blocks, then pouring in the molten granite recipe and letting it cool before moving to the next, recycling the usable clay for the next mold.

The round nubbins protrusions might even be steam explosions from the wet clay.

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Thats the first Ive heard about that. But the only problem is that they've found quarries where* these stones were cut. Some of which are still there. Though, that isnt exactly bullet proof evidence, either.

Daidraco said:

I guess Im being dense. Can you ELI5 please.

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We can do a DNA test and know if someone is European (blone hair) or Asian (slanty eyes) or African (big nose). We can do it in way more detail than that.

So if Atlantis had a globe spanning civilisation, trading and builing pyramids... why doesn't it show up in genetics?

We have a globe spanning civilisation right now and we couldn't keep people of different races from fucking despite trying, we can see their ancestry in their DNA.

Chris said:

We can do a DNA test and know if someone is European (blone hair) or Asian (slanty eyes) or African (big nose). We can do it in way more detail than that.

So if Atlantis had a globe spanning civilisation, trading and builing pyramids... why doesn't it show up in genetics?

We have a globe spanning civilisation right now and we couldn't keep people of different races from fucking despite trying, we can see their ancestry in their DNA.

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I didnt know they were xenophobic. Did I miss where this was assumed? Sounds kind of antithetical to what a large "globe spanning civilization" with a vast merchant / trade network, would be, wouldnt it? If they were a predominant race, at one point, then its feasible that they would have eventually Americanized. Or, we could go the other way, and say that if there was a predominant race that isnt accounted for - then the doomsday event that happened, wiped them out.

I think my problem with what you're insinuating, because Im verly clearly picking up on the science of what you're saying - is that you're speaking in absolutes and until we can fucking go or see back in time, its all theory at best.

The vast bulk of the Atlanteans were wiped out in the destruction of the island, at least that is how the legend goes. So you'd only have traders on ships or at trade outposts that survived.

These were the handbag people you see engraved in stone everywhere. They probably did their best to improve the lot of the common folk. Some became the ruling class in India / Egypt etc.

By the time of the destruction though, they were just men. Plato talks about that. They had mixed for thousands of years by that point so probably weren't that different from other men. Maybe taller, and blonde?

Kharzette said:

All of those big walls look like one of the theories postulates; like a bag was filled and set in place, then hardened and the bag material decayed away. Would be easy enough to do with concrete, but many of these walls are identified as a form of granite right?

Has anyone tried melting down silicates to get a liquified granite of some sort? Just from reading on wiki, it seems like it could be made via a recipe and high heat.

Seems like walls could be built by piling wet clay as a mold for the blocks, then pouring in the molten granite recipe and letting it cool before moving to the next, recycling the usable clay for the next mold.

The round nubbins protrusions might even be steam explosions from the wet clay.

Click to expand...

Only HF can melt silicates efficiently, and I doubt they could produce and deal with it without burning themselves to death.

Whats HF precious?

BTW back to the atlanteans, even though most humans are really fairly close, I sometimes really feel the differences. Looking at how world war 2 went (the real stuff, not the fake crap in the history books), people that like terrible music, that watch anime dubbed. I can't possibly be the same species.

I feel like our non-game section of these forums can be boiled down into the study of the differences in humans. Impulse control probably being the main factor.

It almost seems like we were given a gift of good genetics that slowly dwindles. This is really the theme of lord of the rings. Can we survive long enough to advance sufficiently to improve our own genetics through editing? Would this be our Arwen / Aragorn moment?

Kharzette said:

The vast bulk of the Atlanteans were wiped out in the destruction of the island, at least that is how the legend goes. So you'd only have traders on ships or at trade outposts that survived.

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They travelled around the world, had colonies where they built pyramids, but they didn't fuck anyone and had negligable people on ships or colonies to the point that they have no genetic record. It doesn't make sense.

Meanwhile Spainish people fucked and colonised so much that everyone in Central America has their genetics and there are white Mexicans still.

Daidraco said:

I I think my problem with what you're insinuating, because Im verly clearly picking up on the science of what you're saying - is that you're speaking in absolutes and until we can fucking go or see back in time, its all theory at best.

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Let's say that Africa sank into the sea.

There would still be trace of African genetics across the Americas and Europe in 10k years time, especially if world travel gets isolated so that black areas of the US stay black and don't mix (which is closer to the ancient world).

People say that Olmec statues have African noses... OK so where is that in the genetics of the people there?

We don't need a time machine for this.


Now the next step when something is disproven is to say that mainstream geneticists are covering it up and amateur geneticists "know" the truth because it "makes sense" to them! Maybe the genes are interdimensional like bigfoot is now?

Chris said:

They travelled around the world, had colonies where they built pyramids, but they didn't fuck anyone and had negligable people on ships or colonies to the point that they have no genetic record. It doesn't make sense.

Meanwhile Spainish people fucked and colonised so much that everyone in Central America has their genetics and there are white Mexicans still.


Let's say that Africa sank into the sea.

There would still be trace of African genetics across the Americas and Europe in 10k years time, especially if world travel gets isolated so that black areas of the US stay black and don't mix (which is closer to the ancient world).

People say that Olmec statues have African noses... OK so where is that in the genetics of the people there?

We don't need a time machine for this.


Now the next step when something is disproven is to say that mainstream geneticists are covering it up and amateur geneticists "know" the truth because it "makes sense" to them! Maybe the genes are interdimensional like bigfoot is now?

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But you're speaking in absolutes about something that is theoretical in the first place? I just dont consider that line of thought correct. As far as I know, we dont have any genetic base to say "Look at that! That is our finest specimen yet, and the DNA is perfectly intact!" So really, without that, we cant define who the "atlanteans" were in the first fucking place. They could be Romans for all we know, and their blood line is fucking everywhere. Or, once again, they were so xenophobic that any mixed race lineage was instantly killed. Which isnt unheard of, even to this day. We just dont know and you continuing to say THATS NOT POSSIBLE. THIS IS WRONG. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY. .. ... it only makes you look like a moron, because we dont have any definitive proof that Atlantis actually existed.

Daidraco said:

But you're speaking in absolutes about something that is theoretical in the first place? I just dont consider that line of thought correct. As far as I know, we dont have any genetic base to say "Look at that! That is our finest specimen yet, and the DNA is perfectly intact!" So really, without that, we cant define who the "atlanteans" were in the first fucking place. They could be Romans for all we know, and their blood line is fucking everywhere. Or, once again, they were so xenophobic that any mixed race lineage was instantly killed. Which isnt unheard of, even to this day. We just dont know and you continuing to say THATS NOT POSSIBLE. THIS IS WRONG. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY. .. ... it only makes you look like a moron, because we dont have any definitive proof that Atlantis actually existed.

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Genetics is absolute?

We don't need dead bodies with intact DNA, though there are mummies around that can be tested, the people who live in these places should have traces of "Atlantean" DNA.

Like they can test mummies in Egypt and show that the people living there now share DNA with them. So if Giza was an Atlantean colony, then they must have had Egyptian DNA... that same DNA should be in Mexico near Chitchen Itza and in Bosnia near the pyramid shaped hill and in Cambodia near Ankor Watt.

Geneticists are looking at DNA to track migration patterns over the last 10k years (this is where Caucasians/Aryans/Indo-Europeams comes from) but now it's conflicting with Atlantis it's now some unknowable thing?

Chris said:

Genetics is absolute?

We don't need dead bodies with intact DNA, though there are mummies around that can be tested, the people who live in these places should have traces of "Atlantean" DNA.

Like they can test mummies in Egypt and show that the people living there now share DNA with them. So if Giza was an Atlantean colony, then they must have had Egyptian DNA... that same DNA should be in Mexico near Chitchen Itza and in Bosnia near the pyramid shaped hill and in Cambodia near Ankor Watt.

Geneticists are looking at DNA to track migration patterns over the last 10k years (this is where Caucasians/Aryans/Indo-Europeams comes from) but now it's conflicting with Atlantis it's now some unknowable thing?

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Man. Sometimes I give you the benefit of the doubt and try to reason with you - but you're still fucking retarded after every conversation I have with you. As if Im expecting a different result, as in I guess Im the retard here for engaging with you.

What you failed to grasp from my last reply, which was the key subject to the reply, is that Atantlis is theoretical and no matter what part of the fucking world you pull up as some fucking connection to Atlantis, there is no actual concrete evidence that it existed. Which should explain one fucking thing to you - no matter what DNA they pull from, unless it was DNA from the fucking THEORETICAL FUCKING ISLAND, it means fuck all to the story of Atlantis. God you are one dense, stupid, arrogant fuck.

Daidraco said:

Man. Sometimes I give you the benefit of the doubt and try to reason with you - but you're still fucking retarded after every conversation I have with you. As if Im expecting a different result, as in I guess Im the retard here for engaging with you.

What you failed to grasp from my last reply, which was the key subject to the reply, is that Atantlis is theoretical and no matter what part of the fucking world you pull up as some fucking connection to Atlantis, there is no actual concrete evidence that it existed. Which should explain one fucking thing to you - no matter what DNA they pull from, unless it was DNA from the fucking THEORETICAL FUCKING ISLAND, it means fuck all to the story of Atlantis. God you are one dense, stupid, arrogant fuck.

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So are you agreeing with me that Atlantis didn't exist as a globe spanning civilisation?

Chris said:

So are you agreeing with me that Atlantis didn't exist as a globe spanning civilisation?

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lol what the fuck are you on about? Atlantis was the same people in southern Europe which is to say Spain, Greece, Portugal , Italy and France. so there should also be southern Europe descendant DNA in South America.

There is no such thing as Atlantean DNA. They weren't space aliens. Atlantis was a trade hub. Everyone came from all over the known world to bring their wares to sell. That's why there was cocaine in ancient Egypt, corn in Italy and such. The traders wouldn't all be "Atlantean", they could be anything from anywhere but living and working in the region.

I just don't think you'd be able to distinguish what their dna looked like. By the younger dryas they were just an ethnic group of humans. They had even had a failed invasion of the med where the Greeks beat them. Plato described them as visibly debased (because of the human admixture).

The peak of their civ was probably 30k ago. Look at what happened to the Numenoreans. A slow dwindling of the kings and nobility and eventual fall into degeneracy.

This is why the kinstrife happened (the rebellion lead by Castimir etc). Even taking a wife from such a noble people as the northmen was considered a grave error for a prince. Enough so that they were willing to rebel.

About the best you'll be able to do for atlantis dna is look for haplogroup R1a, which is all over the place. This is post collapse survivor dna though, not global merchant-banging-locals dna.

A more realistic and fun mythical dna investigation would be to look at the sons of the nord kings that had elven wives. Were these elves a different species or just fair skinned maidens from Ireland or somesuch? This would be a difficult investigation with the way they buried their dead, but I think they may have found one of the sons of Ragnar recently that died in England?

Chukzombi said:

lol what the fuck are you on about? Atlantis was the same people in southern Europe which is to say Spain, Greece, Portugal , Italy and France. so there should also be southern Europe descendant DNA in South America.

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Are you being sarcastic? European migration to Central/South America in the last few hundred years is well documented. You'd have to look for European DNA in isolated native groups or mummies.

Main point I'm making is that you'd see this worldwide if Atlantis was everywhere with an advanced civilisation.

I'm no expert in this, but people who study this are not talking about weird distributions of DNA.



Only weird thing here is Euro DNA in Africa which implies a migration at some point. Maybe Atlantis was in Chad lol.

Chris said:

Are you being sarcastic? European migration to Central/South America in the last few hundred years is well documented. You'd have to look for European DNA in isolated native groups or mummies.

Main point I'm making is that you'd see this worldwide if Atlantis was everywhere with an advanced civilisation.

I'm no expert in this, but people who study this are not talking about weird distributions of DNA.

View attachment 527917

Only weird thing here is Euro DNA in Africa which implies a migration at some point. Maybe Atlantis was in Chad lol.

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There was some small migration back into Africa apparently (saw this in a video awhile back). Also the old out-of-africa hypothesis was turned over by realizing that no outside africa peoples had the mix of archaic dna that sub saharans possess.

Chris said:

Are you being sarcastic? European migration to Central/South America in the last few hundred years is well documented. You'd have to look for European DNA in isolated native groups or mummies.

Main point I'm making is that you'd see this worldwide if Atlantis was everywhere with an advanced civilisation.

I'm no expert in this, but people who study this are not talking about weird distributions of DNA.

View attachment 527917

Only weird thing here is Euro DNA in Africa which implies a migration at some point. Maybe Atlantis was in Chad lol.

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Im guessing you are talking about R1b on that map? South Lake Chad - big trade center when the rivers all connected, supposedly.

But on that same map, you have several DNA lineages that are unknown / loose ends. Which accounts for people being wiped out, I assume. Or just having no actual connection to any other referenced DNA lineage. Neat map, though.