Andor

Ossoi · Jan 19, 2023

pharmakos said:
Navy SEALs are a very small percentage of the total American population.

Oxford students are a very small percentage of the total University population in the UK, but

Sevens still thinks they represent the average student

Grizzlebeard · Jan 19, 2023

pharmakos said:
Navy SEALs are a very small percentage of the total American population.

And an even smaller percentage of the seal population.

Harshaw · Jan 19, 2023

pharmakos said:
Navy SEALs are a very small percentage of the total American population.

Ok.. Now go to some backwater town in say China and ask them what a Navy Seal is. I mean there are parts of this world that have never seen, heard, or had a Coke.

Now picture 10000 Jedi. Across a galaxy, where it seems most solar systems have 1 and possibly more habitable planets/moons. I will give you that the core worlds would have a better chance of knowing what a Jedi is. However the Outer Rim it becomes way less.

pharmakos · Jan 19, 2023

Harshaw said:
Ok.. Now go to some backwater town in say China and ask them what a Navy Seal is. I mean there are parts of this world that have never seen, heard, or had a Coke.

Now picture 10000 Jedi. Across a galaxy, where it seems most solar systems have 1 and possibly more habitable planets/moons. I will give you that the core worlds would have a better chance of knowing what a Jedi is. However the Outer Rim it becomes way less.

There aren't that many parts of this world that are unaware of Coke.... My statement was an overstatement for sure, but that statement about Coke is too. Pretty much just talking about indigenous tribes at this point that are unaware of Coke.

I googled it. Coca-Cola is supposedly recognized by 94% of the world's population. And according to Disney 98% of the world's children recognizes Mickey Mouse.

Jedi might rarely travel to some planets. But when they do the stories probably get passed down for generations.

Harshaw · Jan 19, 2023

Ok. Now take those indigenous tribes and in Star Wars those are planets. The issue is that you are thinking of everything in our modern terms and not in the Star Wars Universe. Hell how often do you see people watching TV or having their nose stuck in a phone or tablet in SW.

Even if a Jedi comes to a planet. The whole fucking planet isn't going to know. Sure that small pocket of people will, but it's not like the local news reporter is having an interview with him and blasting it across the planet.

The chances of meeting/seeing a jedi is rare as fuck. Even on Coruscant I bet a large portion go their whole lives never even seeing a Jedi.

pharmakos · Jan 19, 2023

Harshaw said:
Ok. Now take those indigenous tribes and in Star Wars those are planets. The issue is that you are thinking of everything in our modern terms and not in the Star Wars Universe. Hell how often do you see people watching TV or having their nose stuck in a phone or tablet in SW.

Even if a Jedi comes to a planet. The whole fucking planet isn't going to know. Sure that small pocket of people will, but it's not like the local news reporter is having an interview with him and blasting it across the planet.

The chances of meeting/seeing a jedi is rare as fuck. Even on Coruscant I bet a large portion go their whole lives never even seeing a Jedi.

If they're in the Republic then they aren't equivalent to indigenous tribes, no?

Anyway, again. Star Wars Rebels showed us the HoloNet News Network. We haven't seen it on the big screen but it's part of the universe now. Surely details of the Jedi High Council's decisions would have been broadcast on it. Those would have been a normal part of news broadcasts as recent as 20 years before the Battle of Yavin

Tuco · Jan 19, 2023

nu_11 said:
Show was pretty good. Two things I didn't like: the prison story, and the long as fuck monologues. The prison story felt like a digression; they didn't know what to do with Andor after he got paid so they decided to tell some other-story, and Andor just becomes a side-character in this other-story to try to make it relevant to an Andor tv show

I've seen this a few times and reflecting on it, the prison arc is essential to Andor's character because it starts with a character who is heavily conflicted between his rebellious / good tendencies and his selfish desires. He ignores his dying mother's goals of rebellion to go pursue a selfish lifestyle and gets a double dose of "even if you try to avoid trouble the Empire might end you" with "and also a powerful galactic bureaucracy like the empire is realllly bad". Without that arc the end of season 1 showing Andor joining the rebellion makes very little sense, though it could've been supplanted by an arc showing his mom getting undone by the empire. That would've been trite and boring though, and the prisoner arc was some interesting scifi on its own.

Alex · Jan 19, 2023

pharmakos said:
Brother I can tell you a lot about Pearl Harbor, and I barely paid attention to that in school. You are really underestimating people. 19 years is a very short time when it comes to cultural knowledge.

Comparing something major that happened in your own country that's still taught in schools compared to something across an entire fucking galaxy. C'mon, man.

pharmakos · Jan 19, 2023

Alex said:
Comparing something major that happened in your own country that's still taught in schools compared to something across an entire fucking galaxy. C'mon, man.

I'm not saying that every single planet in the galaxy should have been aware of the Jedi High Council. But certainly it would have been relatively common knowledge amongst the planets that the Republic governed. How many civilizations were present in the Senate scenes? The Senate worked closely with the High Council. Every single planet that the Senators come from would need an education system that teaches about the political rules of the Republic in order for them to be able to reasonably participate in Republic politics.

I'm not saying every single person would know. But to think that ALMOST NO ONE would know a mere 19 years later? Naw. Cultural knowledge doesn't die that quickly. Heck some of those alien races probably live hundreds of years longer than humans, especially absurd to think they would forget.

Burns · Jan 19, 2023

Yea, the director's main fuck up was saying that the vast majority of people wouldn't know about the Jedi. Their is a case for the outer rim planets to have little or no education system that would cover how the various galaxy's government systems are set up. More so due to the fact that there are a bunch of independent worlds as well as various areas like Hutt controlled space.

The Empire could still have made talking about or educating anyone on the Jedi a crime, if they wanted to. As an alternative real world example:
The 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre shows what a highly oppressively government can do to information in their own sphere of control. The vast majority of Chinese have no access to that information and anyone caught spreading it will get arrested/reeducated/organ harvested.

The holonet in Rebels was 99% controlled by the Empire and anyone not toeing the line gets disappeared, just like Ezra's parents. A person would need to be interested in, and seek out such information to learn about things that the Empire doesn't want you to know. No one will be walking around talking about it, or teaching it in school.

nu_11 · Jan 19, 2023

Tuco said:
I've seen this a few times and rationalizing it, the prison arc is essential to Andor's character because it starts with a character who is heavily conflicted between his rebellious / good tendencies and his selfish desires. He ignores his dying mother's goals of rebellion to go pursue a selfish lifestyle and gets a double dose of "even if you try to avoid trouble the Empire might end you" with "and also a powerful galactic bureaucracy like the empire is realllly bad". Without that arc the end of season 1 showing Andor joining the rebellion makes very little sense, though it could've been supplanted by an arc showing his mom getting undone by the empire. That would've been trite and boring though, and the prisoner arc was some interesting scifi on its own.

Mother dying and sister dying to the empire is motivation enough. You don't have to make me waste hours watching a flimsy jail-break to convince me that Andor hates the Empire. Also, just because the writers didn't sketch another way for Andor to jump on the rebel bandwagon, doesn't mean a more compelling one doesn't exist.

My biggest problem with the jail-break sequence is that it was too short for what it should have been (at least half a season exploring the Empire's penal system). The result of the way it was thrown in for 3 episodes makes it feel shallow and undercooked, thus becomes a ham-fisted attempt to move the story from point a to b in your perspective (and become filler in my perspective). I really feel that I learned NOTHING new about Andor or the Empire through the whole prison sequence.

pharmakos · Jan 19, 2023

Burns said:
The Empire could still have made talking about or educating anyone on the Jedi a crime, if they wanted to. As an alternative real world example:
The 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre shows what a highly oppressively government can do to information in their own sphere of control. The vast majority of Chinese have no access to that information and anyone caught spreading it will get arrested/reeducated/organ harvested.

Yeah Star Wars stories have a lot of kids / teenagers / young 20 somethings. More believable that the adults would be unwilling to risk educating their kids about it. But the universe is still mostly made up of adults even tho kids get the focus on the screen often.

pharmakos · Jan 19, 2023

nu_11 said:
Mother dying and sister dying to the empire is motivation enough. You don't have to make me waste hours watching a flimsy jail-break to convince me that Andor hates the Empire. Also, just because the writers didn't sketch another way for Andor to jump on the rebel bandwagon, doesn't mean a more compelling one doesn't exist.

My biggest problem with the jail-break sequence is that it was too short for what it should have been (at least half a season exploring the Empire's penal system). The result of the way it was thrown in for 3 episodes makes it feel shallow and undercooked, thus becomes a ham-fisted attempt to move the story from point a to b in your perspective (and become filler in my perspective). I really feel that I learned NOTHING new about Andor or the Empire through the whole prison sequence.

Yeah the show has four distinct three episode arcs, and the shift between them was a little jarring. I almost think they should have released three episodes at a time a month apart instead of going a week at a time.

Harshaw · Jan 20, 2023

pharmakos said:
I'm not saying that every single planet in the galaxy should have been aware of the Jedi High Council. But certainly it would have been relatively common knowledge amongst the planets that the Republic governed. How many civilizations were present in the Senate scenes? The Senate worked closely with the High Council. Every single planet that the Senators come from would need an education system that teaches about the political rules of the Republic in order for them to be able to reasonably participate in Republic politics.

I'm not saying every single person would know. But to think that ALMOST NO ONE would know a mere 19 years later? Naw. Cultural knowledge doesn't die that quickly. Heck some of those alien races probably live hundreds of years longer than humans, especially absurd to think they would forget.

You are underestimating how big the galaxy was. This is canon taken off wookiepedia.

There were 7,100,000,000 stars in the known galaxy, with approximately 3,200,000,000 habitable star systems. Only about a billion of these systems had life. Only 69,000,000 of those systems met population requirements for Imperial representation.

Ossoi · Jan 20, 2023

nu_11 said:
Mother dying and sister dying to the empire is motivation enough. You don't have to make me waste hours watching a flimsy jail-break to convince me that Andor hates the Empire. Also, just because the writers didn't sketch another way for Andor to jump on the rebel bandwagon, doesn't mean a more compelling one doesn't exist.

My biggest problem with the jail-break sequence is that it was too short for what it should have been (at least half a season exploring the Empire's penal system). The result of the way it was thrown in for 3 episodes makes it feel shallow and undercooked, thus becomes a ham-fisted attempt to move the story from point a to b in your perspective (and become filler in my perspective). I really feel that I learned NOTHING new about Andor or the Empire through the whole prison sequence.

That whole sequence was worth it for the emotional payoff that he was building parts for the death star that later killed him

nu_11 · Jan 20, 2023

Ossoi said:
That whole sequence was worth it for the emotional payoff that he was building parts for the death star that later killed him

Tell me you love Soy Wars without telling me you love Soy Wars

Bondurant · Jan 21, 2023

lol at people arguing about SW lore like it was made by some genius with a meta plan who figured everything ten moves ahead, guys it's Lucas not Tolkien, 99% of your wookieepedia bullshit was created and written by fans, stop trying to nitpick about the width of stormtrooper helms.

Lanx · Jan 21, 2023

Harshaw said:
Ok. Now take those indigenous tribes and in Star Wars those are planets. The issue is that you are thinking of everything in our modern terms and not in the Star Wars Universe. Hell how often do you see people watching TV or having their nose stuck in a phone or tablet in SW.

Even if a Jedi comes to a planet. The whole fucking planet isn't going to know. Sure that small pocket of people will, but it's not like the local news reporter is having an interview with him and blasting it across the planet.

The chances of meeting/seeing a jedi is rare as fuck. Even on Coruscant I bet a large portion go their whole lives never even seeing a Jedi.

yea but there was an entire galactic war going on and i'm sure ppl would notice that for some reason every general also happened to be a jedi master (they even made anakin a general before sorta not making him a master)

even in our faggot war, ppl know the faggot ruskie generals that are killed

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/26/ukraine-russan-generals-dead/

i mean after a few dead jedi generals ppl would wonder why these pajama wearing faggots are always killed holding a flashlight

Wombat · Jan 21, 2023

I know we aren't supposed to enjoy any part of Obi-Wan, but them retconning the story to 'Of course everyone knows who the Jedi are, but the Empire thought policed anyone who mentioned them / engaged in mass propaganda to discredit them' makes way more sense than any former part of the Republic not remembering the occasional visits and constant mentions in the education system / equivalent of 'pop culture' of Jedi for thousands of years.

Malakriss · Jan 21, 2023

First rule of Empire, don't talk about the traitors.

Andor

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