Archeage

That could work, is it possible to code something like that and get every area where someone travelling from X to Y , could be killed? So many starting points and ending points. Also how do you do it where only the people who actually defended themselves from attackers reaps the award and not someone showing up after the fact.

I would show pvp activity on the map, like most games do, ESO with its battle markers. etc.

Give trade pack runners some kind of indication on just how much risk they're involving themselves in. List an increased reward modifier for incoming packages. Halcyona for instance during war time would have a 130% trade modifier with a saturated map of battles. Or something like that.

The reward for successfully defending your pack in a risky area is the reward for turning in the pack at a modified reward percentage. Knowing the risks and modifiers before hand will help traders determine their own risk:reward ratio.

This game would be so much more cut and dry if it were just FFA.

Same faction ganking is just weird and clunky. Safezone flagging is weird and clunky.

Also why doesn't the commerce skill offer trade pack stealthing options, or merchant ship smokescreen options. We need to be able to smuggle stuff right?

Bad thing is trying to come up with things, that players just wont exploit . Like you could put a buff on someone, if they successfully kill someone while wearing a pack(or maybe in the vicinity of stored packs) that increases rewards received if turned in with the buff. But then you would most likely have players taking turns to get the buff.

Yeah same faction killing is very weird. I think if you attack someone you should stay flagged for X time and if you kill someone even longer. So its not just flag, kill and then turn it off right away.

Safe zone stuff is iffy. I get why they did it and it makes sense for what is effectively newb areas. Though I would probably fix the healing a player not flagging you.

Cinge_sl said:

Bad thing is trying to come up with things, that players just wont exploit . Like you could put a buff on someone, if they successfully kill someone while wearing a pack(or maybe in the vicinity of stored packs) that increases rewards received if turned in with the buff. But then you would most likely have players taking turns to get the buff.

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The idea is that the zone activity dictates the trade pack reward bonus. Not a buff that gets applied to someone.

Vitality_sl said:

The idea is that the zone activity dictates the trade pack reward bonus. Not a buff that gets applied to someone.

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I get that, but that can reward people who don't really do any defending, they just happen to be going through a area that has or had a lot of pvp action.

Cinge_sl said:

I get that, but that can reward people who don't really do any defending, they just happen to be going through a area that has or had a lot of pvp action.

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Lets just go the battlefield route and apply a "Savior Achievement" on the act of defending someone from getting ganked and give them "Bonus Savior Honor". Count it like assists would be counted, where dealing a % of someones health in defense of an ally would flag you for savior bonuses.

The crime/justice system should be a reflection of honor etc like it is in other games. Right now it's just super basic. Serial Killers/Thieves need to be labeled and flipped red/pirate easily. Other games have great systems that archeage can model this from.

Tuco would love this Savior/Anti-PK bonus.

Vitality_sl said:

Dynamically adjusting trade route valuation based on amount of stolen packs and players killed in the area.

If one area has more pvp volume, the packs traveling through there should be worth more stars/gold.

The reward should match the risk, not be standardized. This will be the defenders incentive for entering into a situation that would otherwise be crappy.

Broadcasting pvp volume and trade route information prior to trade pack departure would open up a reason to bring friends or do trade routes in PVP groups.

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Worth more to who? Whoever turns a pack in there? Then you're just giving the attackers even more reward.

There is already a system that effects what a pack is worth at turn in, it just doesn't work very well and needs to be adjusted. Another problem is that the sea is pretty small, which makes it difficult to change/tweak some things about trading/trade routes.

I'd much prefer if active zones got a bonus to pack turn in over the current system.

Love the idea of putting PvP action on the map. They could include herald like stats:

How many packs stolen by the enemy faction over the last hour, week, month, year etc. by zone and total
How many packs stolen by the same faction over the last hour, week, month, year etc. by zone and total
Player kill lists showing how many kills people have of the other faction and same faction
Show how many packs individuals jack from the other faction and same faction. Same with stealing goods.
Number of PvP kills in the last hour shown on map broken out by side and include your own factions kills of themselves

All on an in game page similar to the Herald.
Naturally none of that will see its way in game.

I dunno, tons of guards? The point of the game is for players to defend themselves, not for the game to defend some solo player trying to turn in his pack.

The main continent turn ins have guards, sitting by the npc. So as long as you get in range of that you should be ok(people can still kill you and take the deaths with someone not dying getting your pack). But there is no reason for say freedich island to have some guards or NPC protectors.

Valderen_sl said:

The point is risk vs reward...people sitting at the dock take no risk and minimal effort for high reward. The merchant takes high risk in crossing the sea, and a lot of effort, gathering, harvesting, making the pack etc....or the reward.

At least forcing people at sea where it's always pvp and they risk being attacked seems fair...

Alternately...take away all guards, and make the trader NPC in a zone that always at war. That way sitting at the dock is a risk other player might just kill you so they have less competition for the packs.

Maybe I have less issue with freedich island since it's always at war. There's been some fighting between the players waiting for merchants...that makes more sense at least.

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I agree. With how the system works right now the agressor has all the benefits and has nearly zero work. If they want to camp that area, fine. It needs to be on equal terms, out in the water in a fully PvP area and if the merchant makes it to the turn in area then the merchant wins.

Pirate Island being different since, well, they are pirates.

No respectable town is going to allow people to pick off its merchants as they are bringing in goods.

It's hard to use the RP side. Since they are neutral NPCs and they don't care who brings it in, the maker or the pker, they get it.

I would agree to any area that has a cross continent trade turn in(for east this is the 3 towns on the coast, austera, lutesong and caenord) should be pvp enabled. Even if its just 500m around the npc's, as to not effect the rest of the zone(where newbies are questing in the case of two of the towns). That way the Pker on the dock , can be killed by his own side also.

I guess I wouldn't mind for the turn in @ austera/lutesong or any other town in a newbie area(ie not two-way pvp enabled) to have guards right on the edge of the dock, to force people into the ocean if they want to camp those turn ins. Making say ocean "Zone" borders go right up to the docks, to allow maximum pvp area, is probably not a option, though would help.

Tuco_sl said:

1. Make everyone drop gold when you die and items in your inventory. This way everyone involved has something to lose rather than only the dude just trying to make a living moving a pack.
2. Add a bounty hunting system where if you kill a criminal you get some reward that comes from their pockets.
3. Make ship destruction more costly, and make people less able to despawn their ships.

These are all easy non-hokey changes that would accomplish that, but ultimately in a PvP game you want a system where people are constantly fighting over land. They would need to redo a lot of their systems to allow for that, because right now land ownership is too static.

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1) Option 1 still places a "double tax" on the trader...now not only do they lose their pack, but they lose gold too? IMO the trade pack should act as a sort of immunity to that sort of system if ever implemented. You're already walking slow as hell with one on and the pack is the main prize. That way the trader is only risking their pack (which is the risk) and the attackers risk losing whatever they have on them...although still, that could be negated by emptying your wallets before an attack and item drops is a thorny issue, especially in a gear dependent game like this. There is still room for exploit there.

2) Reward needs to have sources other than the bounty, otherwise they just dump their cash off before doing anything risky. You also need to ensure that you aren't just funding a bounty swapping agreement between parties where they exploit the system.

3) Agree, although I think rowboats should be immune from that (since they get raped by everything anyways and are slow).

Maybe instead of a simple looting gold off the body (which is easily avoided), what if the dead attacking player dropped a lien contract? When you loot this item and hand it in/use it, it essentially places a lien on any money or resources acquired by that player and they are fed directly to you (via mailbox maybe). The effect could be cumulative.

So for example you are doing a trade run and get attacked by PK/pirates. You successfully defend and kill all the pk/pirates. Maybe a single lien contract would be 5% lien per player for a certain amount of money/resources (and maybe have a max time limit as well, like 2 weeks?). The lien remains until paid off (or that max time limit is hit) and can stack all the way to 100%. These can be rolled on by the group, so maybe as a defender agreement, defenders get to loot all the contracts that drop (again, leave this up to the players, but keep group/raid loot rights in place so random people can't take them). This creates risk for the PK/pirates and reward for the defenders. It also creates a situation where the PK/pirates need to be successful to really benefit, otherwise any stolen packs will just end up feeding liens.

This encourages PK/pirate vs. Defender/anti-PK arms races and also encourages larger scale operations/better planning.

Would have to remove the ability to put gold in your bank.

No one would ever carry any around unless its from the warehouse to vendor/market. The latter I dunno, never put gold in warehouse to see if you can still buy from the marketplace with it.

Tuco_sl said:

Yeah I think your lien system is a more well thought out version of my bounty system. However, the fun thing about gold dropping from your person where it's a % of the gold you're carrying is there is an excitement to see how much gold you get, and sometimes you hit the lottery. I remember one time PRX sacked a city in Shadowbane and we caught the guy who was trying to run their bank's gold to safety. We got some 100+ hours worth of gold farming off him.

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in shadowbane, 100+ hours of farming didnt exist. Its 10 minutes of duping and you just shrugged it off.

Cinge_sl said:

Would have to remove the ability to put gold in your bank.

No one would ever carry any around unless its from the warehouse to vendor/market. The latter I dunno, never put gold in warehouse to see if you can still buy from the marketplace with it.

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Might as well just let people bank it because if you dont, those in the know will just work around it by mailing gold to an alt, etc.

So is the rush to max level still pretty evident in this game, or do people actually take their time and enjoy other things?

people are trying to talk up taking their time but i mean the rush to max level is still there. If your a 50 fighting a 30, you wont lose.