Archeage

Labor points needs to be looked at badly. Just seems to me there isn't enough labor points to do much variety of stuff each day. I was gathering ore, farming for tradepacks, doing some questing/opening mob loot, and crafting a few of my own items here and there, and I was blowing a labor potion daily, and this on a pretty casual basis 3-5 hours per day, I even started with full 5k labor points and I went to 0 multiple times over 5 days. I understand that Trion needs to make money and I'm happy to pay a sub, but if I'm paying a sub I should be able to do as much gathering/crafting/looting mobs as I want.

Felmega_sl said:

No one that plays these 3D medieval fantasy games is thinking about EVE. Just forget EVE in any comparison to what MMO gamers are looking for in terms of a sandbox game. EVE is it's own little snowflake that the usual MMO gamer is not interested in.

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I think a lot of that has to do with not having a "character". Everything was ship based as your "Avatar" but that could change constantly. That and the combat I think is what turned most people off(me including). It's bad when the game is more fun to read about then to play.

B_Mizzle_sl said:

Labor points needs to be looked at badly. Just seems to me there isn't enough labor points to do much variety of stuff each day. I was gathering ore, farming for tradepacks, doing some questing/opening mob loot, and crafting a few of my own items here and there, and I was blowing a labor potion daily, and this on a pretty casual basis 3-5 hours per day, I even started with full 5k labor points and I went to 0 multiple times over 5 days. I understand that Trion needs to make money and I'm happy to pay a sub, but if I'm paying a sub I should be able to do as much gathering/crafting/looting mobs as I want.

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Imo they need to remove them from quest rewards, dropped armor(all the unidentified stuff) and the level 20-25ish quest crafting(which is used as a tutorial in a sense). I don't have a problem with coin purses as they are optional to open but I would put the old loot back on mobs and remove labor from things like trade pack turn ins, quest anything, treasure hunting etc.

I don't agree with " but if I'm paying a sub I should be able to do as much gathering/crafting/looting mobs as I want.". I actually like the system in regards to it limiting the speed at which items and goods can hit the market.

The only part about the labor system I don't like is that it feels like owning land might be the equalizer. Having to spend 200 lp for tax certs basically makes the extra 5 while logged in negligible. I don't have anything to back that up, just feels like that'll be the case. Then again, if they never implement an afk kick, it probably makes less of a difference.

Bondurant_sl said:

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I was thinking about this, and they mentioned on Reddit that they'd be doing a minimum of one more closed beta after this one. So put CB3 at the weekend of 8/15, and then open beta two weeks later for labor day weekend makes a lot of sense (and fits the every 2 weeks thing they've done). Then another 2-3 weeks for release. I would've still guessed the week after that (9/23), but it seems about right.

Crowing_sl said:

Bah, Fogia beat me to it. Yes, EVE does indeed do the sandbox experience better. Everything about Archeage in my experience was just so...bland and half assed.

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EVE isn't remotely comparable and bringing it up in these discussions is like jumping into a conversation about racing sims and telling people Falcon 4.0 is a better game.

Cinge_sl said:

Imo they need to remove them from quest rewards, dropped armor(all the unidentified stuff) and the level 20-25ish quest crafting(which is used as a tutorial in a sense). I don't have a problem with coin purses as they are optional to open but I would put the old loot back on mobs and remove labor from things like trade pack turn ins, quest anything, treasure hunting etc.

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As far as I'm aware Trion mentioned they were addressing the LP on use cost for stuff like this. Hopefully they remove it, like you say.

I think LP are a good thing to keep in to discourage overuse of teleporting gathering bots, but I do agree that it's use should be reduced or eliminated in certain matters.

Rafterman_sl said:

There are better games for PvE, there are better games for instanced PvP, there are better games for questing, etc. But if you go into it like a sandbox, there is a giant non-instanced/phased world where the players effect the landscape and the community and it's far from average. That's not saying it's the best MMO ever made or anything, but there is virtually nothing like it in the market right now, so yeah you could be playing a dozen other MMOs but you aren't going to get a large portion of what ArcheAge offers in those games. The question becomes is that what you are looking for in an MMO or do you just want another WoW clone with a fresh skin? Seriously, if you can find a sandbox MMO that brings the things to the table that ArcheAge but does it better I'd be interested in know what that game is, because I'd be there day one.

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This is how the game struck me as well, and why I didn't like it. It seemed like a schizophrenic "Jack of all Trades, Master of None" type deal. I mean, we already have EvE/DAoC/Darkfall for PvP, FFXIV/TOR/WoW for PvE/dungeon raiding, Farmville/ATITD/Landmark for crafting, etc etc as "masters" to some extent all of which you can login at your leisure, play a bit then log out. I just didn't see any one thing AAge did well enough for me to get excited about enough to want to sub for that (it sure wasn't labor points). Makes more sense for me to sub/play a few different games that focuses on a particular thing I want at a particular time and does that better than the others, rather than one that 'kinda' does everything else mediocre like. Saying it's in a somewhat sandbox doesn't add more of a hook really.

The other thing about this game isfocusedplaying time and where all games require time, this one requireslots of active monitored timeby a player, nothing about it says casual. After all these years I realized I'm now quite comfortable downgrading my playing status from "hardcore" to "casual" due to life's additions. The days of me wanting to spend hours and hours in a game a day/week by mandatory design to maintain things (not because I have some free time to login and play) are probably over. This is one of the reasons that made it easy to stop playing WildStar; could see down the line it would just require too much of a block of time if I wanted to really get into it for the later raids when everyone finally 'clicks'. Since I already do that in FFXIV/TOR now casually with minimal effort, no reason to trade that.

I think the one niche advantage AAge might have over most any other new game (with WildStar second) will be it will be more suited towards that large mega-guild structure design for people who crave that, whereas in most of those other MMOs your small guild can not only survive but thrive quite handily because you can compete on many varying levels (dungeons/premades/crafting guilds). I'm just not sure we have that same crowd willing to do that Ultima Online/DAoC huge guild scene these days anymore due to the time/effort involved.

I like that your solution to getting your fix for certain game types is just playing multiple games as opposed to one that tries to incorporate multiple elements of each.

And then you immediately go into how you don't have as much time for gaming as an older adult that you used to.

B_Mizzle_sl said:

but if I'm paying a sub I should be able to do as much gathering/crafting/looting mobs as I want.

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Disagree. Labor points are a resource. This is exactly the same as you saying "if I'm paying a sub I should have as much iron ore as I want to craft". You can't refer to3-5 hours of gaming a dayas "casual" and imply that labor points are constricting your content. Prioritize your labor points, allocate them properly... and, unless 1.2 is substantially different, you can make a crapton of gold farming mobs at 50 too which doesn't take labor points.

Jackdaddio_sl said:

I think the one niche advantage AAge might have over most any other new game (with WildStar second) will be it will be more suited towards that large mega-guild structure design for people who crave that, whereas in most of those other MMOs your small guild can not only survive but thrive quite handily because you can compete on many varying levels (dungeons/premades/crafting guilds). I'm just not sure we have that same crowd willing to do that Ultima Online/DAoC huge guild scene these days anymore due to the time/effort involved.

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I don't get it, the things you list for small guilds can be done in this game and WS. Let's take AA. You can bet there will be crafting guilds, considering how huge crafting is and it has the best items possible. There are arenas for people who want to do just that(and I've seen people who only want to do arena and avoid world pvp). You also have dungeons, hard modes and iirc a 10 man dungeon. No clue why you assume this game(or WS) is mega guilds only.

btw I'm laughing at your "we already have EVE/DAOC/Darkfall for PVP" statement.

Byr_sl said:

Haven and Hearth x1000. It has a ton of downsides granted (combat, bugs, 8 bit level of graphics, etc) but its sandbox cant be matched by anything.

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I've seen snapchats of Byr's sandy box.

Eidal_sl said:

... and, unless 1.2 is substantially different, you can make a crapton of goldfarming mobs at 50 too which doesn't take labor points.

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It does now. Mobs only drop coinpurses and unidentified items now, which cost LP to open/identify. You can't even farm mobs for pelts anymore.

combat seems to suffer from too many skills. are there macros in this game? as a lvl 16 shadowblade i had like 9 dps skills with cooldowns. am i missing something?

9 Combat skills is too many skills?

If anything I would say this game strikes a decent balance between limited ability systems and over-bloat. Especially as you pick and choose how many you actually want and what type they are.

This is not a case of a game having "too many" combat skills.

so you guys just use the newer ones? they all seemed to do very different things. and they level up by themselves so i assume they are all valid at max level? it seemed like 9 by level 16 was a lot if you keep gaining them.

You have 23 pts @ 50. So in theory you could have 23 usable abilities but that seems kind of rare, as most people will pick up at least 5-6 passives. So now down to 17 abilities. For most classes at least one of those is a buff you hit every 30 minutes. So 16 abilities. Out of these you probably have 2-3 utilities at least. So 14 abilities. That seems ok to me. Also depends on class, melee tend to have as many gap closers as they can, so they end up with with like 5 or more gap closers. People also grab lots of CC, who's usage depends on the fight.

jeffvader_sl said:

so you guys just use the newer ones? they all seemed to do very different things. and they level up by themselves so i assume they are all valid at max level? it seemed like 9 by level 16 was a lot if you keep gaining them.

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Just to touch on what Cinge is saying, my current build at 50 has 7 passives, 2 thirty minute buffs, and 3 cooldowns on a 1 minute or longer timer. That leaves 11 skills that can be used every fight, and nearly half of those are situational (stun/fear removers, magic shields, etc.). Of course that's just one build, most of my builds look similar. You definitely won't have a problem with skill bloat at cap.

Elurin_sl said:

I like that your solution to getting your fix for certain game types is just playing multiple games as opposed to one that tries to incorporate multiple elements of each.

And then you immediately go into how you don't have as much time for gaming as an older adult that you used to.

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The difference being AAge is a very time intensive game. If you don't log in, your crops are at jeopardy and that kind of thing I believe. That means you must log in at least daily to check on them.
The other games I mentioned don't really have that type of time commitment that's mandatory. They are pretty much one-shot deals; log in, do what you want and log out when you feel like it as opposed to when you have to and you don't feel like it.
Plus there's the whole thing I mentioned about how they all do one thing much better individually than AAge does collectively, which seems to have gotten lost. So if you feel like good PvE, you log into something else. If you feel like good PvP, you go there.
AAge just reminded me of Olive Garden that's all. Nothing great but everything kind of tastes good but when you want a good steak or seafood, you don't think to go there first. Doesn't mean it's a bad game at all, just a Jack of All Trades. Not really interested in those anymore.

Except your games to go to for PVP were EVE, DAOC and darkfall...

As for your time intensive. If you think you cannot log in daily to care for your stuff. Get a family or make your land guild accessible. Then you just need to log in to pay taxes at least every 2 weeks.