Auto repair and gremlins
- Thread starter Oldbased
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Oldbased
> Than U
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Ya I bought this van in 2011 from a security company for $800. Put in a new power steering motor ( which has failed twice, damn GM's. First one was installed by a mechanic so I know it wasn't just me ). Battery, brakes full tune up and tires and put on 40k miles since then. Otherwise never an issue until this. Used it most of those years hauling pallets of tile, wood, shingles like it was nothing. It's old, its beat up, it stinks but when it runs you can take your hand off the wheel at 80mph and slam on the brakes and it'll still go in a straight line.
BTW you just reminded me of something I overlooked. Probably won't change anything but it is part of the diagnostic process I totally skipped. Once my parts get here so I can assemble it back to crank, I need to clear all faults even though no light was on and battery with ignition on.
Oldbased
Was lurking the forums when came across your post. I have an 03 Chevy Astro RWD (same thing as a Safari). My first car was a 90 Shorty Astro AWD. What you are describing sounds like the beginning of the end of your fuel pump. My Astro is starting to do the same thing. Normally runs fine but sometimes it doesn't want to start and on rare occasion it completely stalled out on me. I have an 02 Malibu do the same thing and eventually the pump just died after I parked it at work. Of corse, confirming this would take a fuel pressure gauge. I believe the PSI needs to be in the upper 50s while running. If not, then pump is shot. You might be able to get a loaner gauge from your LAPS.Changing the fuel filter, cleaning the IAC and MAF are all good, cheap things to try that may work.
As for MAF, if you clean it, use MAF cleaner. Carb cleaner or anything else will mess it up.
Final advice is to visit astrosafari.com they are a community based around these vans and anything you need/want to know about how to fix it or mod it, they can tell you. For example, many folks there have detailed how to cut an access hole in the floor to easily access the fuel pump for easy change out. Beats having to drop a full 27 Gal fuel tank!
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Just a thought, when was the last time you did the plugs/wires? they are a major PITA on these vans, especially the drivers side.
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A5150Ylee
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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My first thought is bad MAF where you're not getting fuel because it's registering as no air. Try starting with starting fluid and see if it kicks over. Having said that, if it was a completely bad MAF, it wouldn't keep running once started. And ya, DON'T use carb cleaner on the MAF, buy the special cleaner for it.
The other thought is a bad temp sensor and it's not engaging the choke to get it started. Modern engines always use some choke to get going unless the engine is up to 150-170 already. Even on hot days it will use it, just not for long.
Either way, I'd say you need to pull an injector and see if it's actually spraying.
With all the sensors now it's always a crap shoot on what it could be. Exact same symptom can be cause by issues in completely different systems. I had a sensor on the charcoal canister fail and it made the engine rough, stall, and lag and that's there just to catch spare fuel fumes.
The other thought is a bad temp sensor and it's not engaging the choke to get it started. Modern engines always use some choke to get going unless the engine is up to 150-170 already. Even on hot days it will use it, just not for long.
Either way, I'd say you need to pull an injector and see if it's actually spraying.
With all the sensors now it's always a crap shoot on what it could be. Exact same symptom can be cause by issues in completely different systems. I had a sensor on the charcoal canister fail and it made the engine rough, stall, and lag and that's there just to catch spare fuel fumes.
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Zapatta
Krugman's Fax Machine
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Pro Tip-
95% of cars if its Mass Airflow Sensor problem, you can unplug it from the harness and the car will run great. Most Computers default to ignore it missing from the loop.
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A5150Ylee
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I believe it. After I posted this I realized I've ran my engine just fine with the air box removed and nothing going through the MAF. And it's not like a '96 ECM was really trying to find that perfect air/fuel ratio in real time.
I would still spray from starter fluid in the air to see if it kicks over and pull an injector to verify it's spraying. It might help narrow down the search for the problem and it's relatively easy to do if you have a helper turn the key.
Any chance there is a security chip in the key that's gotten worn down or damaged? On the newer stuff, the VATS (anti theft system) will allow the engine to turn over but won't let it start.
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DirkDonkeyroot
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Fuel injector internal seals may be bad, series 4 and 5 RX7 had the same problem. When parked for a while the injectors would drip and flood the combustion chambers. Ran fine and started up hot all the time but would flood if left overnight.
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Oldbased
> Than U
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You know, it may or may not be but it just occured to me my issues only started months after I went from daily driving for work, to not driving it but once a week this year due to illness.
Makes me wonder if just age/mileage is "gumming" up someplace including gas tank due to the sudden inactivities. My job last year was jobsite inspection so I drove around 3-4 hours a day as I had done since I got it when I was remodeling.
This year I think I have put 600 miles on it total in 6 months.
DirkDonkeyroot
Blackwing Lair Raider
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The solution for this when it happened was to pull the EFI fuse and crank it a bit to clear the fuel, then start normally. This was such a common problem with the cars guys would wire in fuel cut switches for a low money solution. The real fix was rebuilt injectors. May want to try pulling the fuse and see if that solves your problem.
Oldbased
> Than U
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Ya that is on hold a bit while I find a new distributor cap screw. I had this mistake before. With the inner cover off the distributor is only about 3 inches away from the duct that runs under the carpet. Many a vital nuts, bolts and crap and gone down that rabbit hole and even with magnet never return to see light again. I am so damn mad at myself. I've done it before. Logic would be I put a rag in it. Basic tier fuckups.
$11 for one tapered screw? Seriously GM go Fyerself. Guess I'll be hitting Lowes and see what I can find. At least I have one for reference.
Lambourne
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I spent a lot of time tinkering with 80s and 90s GM products and the Coolant temp sensor would be my first guess. ECM thinks engine is hot, does not enrich mixture enough for it to start cold. Starts once enough fuel vapor is built up in the intake. Just disconnecting it may be enough to get the ECM to default to some value that will allow it to start. Also make sure there is not a shitload of corrosion and/or electrical tape on the sensor housing, the body of the sensor needs to make electrical contact with the head or manifold on some cars.
If that fixes it the sensor is like $10 usually
Oldbased
> Than U
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The interesting thing is the fact if almost starts sometimes and if I can get it to fire it goes onward without complaint. Which is why I keep leaning back to timing, and air/fuel.
I had a jump box but not charger so I ordered Amazon.com: BLACK+DECKER BM3B 6V and 12V Battery Charger / Maintainer: Automotive wednesday because I didn't havce the $70 to waste on just a good charger. 10/10 purchase. Came yesterday, hooked it up, fully charged today. Not bad for a 1amp trickle charger. Since I had drained battery so low the jump pack I have Cobra JumPack® XL CPP 12000 charges it enough to crank 4 seconds every 30 seconds or so x20 times but having the battery fully charged will give me better chances of seeing something on the OBD hopefully. Going to go seek out that screw, clear the system and see where I stand with ignition cleaned up, new cap and rotor and plugs cleaned and regapped.
Someone asked about plugs and stuff, that was done in 2012 with the autolite lifetime stuff. Mostly looked good but I did pull and clean all the plugs and regreased the boots with boot gel.
Lambourne
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Doesn't really sound like an ignition issue, those show up onder load usually. Could be timing is off, but if it runs allright once it's going that's probably not it either. I'd try temp sensor first of all, you can try by disconnecting it or some starter spray to enrich the mixture that way.
Oldbased
> Than U
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Actually...
So I went to autozone said I need this screw. Guy was like we got nothing like that, you can buy this cap and rotor kit it has new screws for $49.99. I said screw that and went next door to Harbor Freight and got a magnetic wand for $3.
Came back home and it wouldn't fit due to angle so I cut carpet back some more, took out about a 6x6 inch piece of sound proofing and used pliers to break a portion of vent. Stick magnet in got screw and tightened up distributor cap.
No since the last attempt at starting I had replaced cap/rotor, shimmed distributor with a help bracket, pulled plugs and wires and reinstalled them all. I had pulled the MAF which had a dead spider on the screen, but not the 3 actual resistors behind it and cleaned the external sensor which had dust in it.
So I figured I'll try to crank with obd and see if it will tell me anything. It fired up on first rotation which it hasn't done in some time. No putter, no hesitation, just like it had 50 miles on it.
This is confusing because I had checked most of these things prior to the last time I attempted to start it.
I turned it off, let it sit 10 minutes. Fired on first spin of the engine.
So now I have to ask, did I fix something or is it just back to what it was doing prior where it ran fine most of the time.
Most of the data looked good. Going to let it cool then run the full diagnostic.
So I went to autozone said I need this screw. Guy was like we got nothing like that, you can buy this cap and rotor kit it has new screws for $49.99. I said screw that and went next door to Harbor Freight and got a magnetic wand for $3.
Came back home and it wouldn't fit due to angle so I cut carpet back some more, took out about a 6x6 inch piece of sound proofing and used pliers to break a portion of vent. Stick magnet in got screw and tightened up distributor cap.
No since the last attempt at starting I had replaced cap/rotor, shimmed distributor with a help bracket, pulled plugs and wires and reinstalled them all. I had pulled the MAF which had a dead spider on the screen, but not the 3 actual resistors behind it and cleaned the external sensor which had dust in it.
So I figured I'll try to crank with obd and see if it will tell me anything. It fired up on first rotation which it hasn't done in some time. No putter, no hesitation, just like it had 50 miles on it.
This is confusing because I had checked most of these things prior to the last time I attempted to start it.
I turned it off, let it sit 10 minutes. Fired on first spin of the engine.
So now I have to ask, did I fix something or is it just back to what it was doing prior where it ran fine most of the time.
Most of the data looked good. Going to let it cool then run the full diagnostic.
Oldbased
> Than U
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Yes it is, I did so many different things that it should be running good. I am just not sure what was causing severe no start situations randomly. The OBD I have ( bluetooth one off ebay for like $12 ) can be left plugged in 24/7 and connects with my phone automatically to the Torque app so I am just going to leave it running the next few weeks or until a problem develops again and collect data.
A5150Ylee
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That actually sounds pretty cool and like a good plan. I should probably get one of those just to have around for when I need it.
Hekotat
FoH nuclear response team
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I haven't caught up but, Starter relay? Shoddy/decayed wiring? Ignition switch? I had to replace all wires and relay when mine was doing the same shit, it would only fuck up when at a car show.
There was a ton of corrosion on the wiring as well as decayed after 30 years of use. Haven't had any issues since.
There was a ton of corrosion on the wiring as well as decayed after 30 years of use. Haven't had any issues since.