Batman: The Killing Joke (2016)

This is fan service, not a wide release. Should be rated R. /shrug

Joker implies he raped Barbara Gordon to torture the commissioner.

The Ancient_sl said:

Joker implies he raped Barbara Gordon to torture the commissioner.

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He has nudes and strips Gordon down naked /Fetish gear...cant remember which.

Nah, he cripples her with a gunshot wound to the back. Captures her father, and sticks him in a monkey cage naked. Then finally (he only has 24 hours to break him) he ties him to a roller coaster and puts his naked daughter on the big screen around the park showing photos of her bloodied, crippled, naked....

Just one bad day....is all it takes. And the joke is pretty philosophical but an old one. It should do really well, it was the 80's kids staple growing up.

Jait_sl said:

Nah, he cripples her with a gunshot wound to the back. Captures her father, and sticks him in a monkey cage naked. Then finally (he only has 24 hours to break him) he ties him to a roller coaster and puts his naked daughter on the big screen around the park showing photos of her bloodied, crippled, naked....

Just one bad day....is all it takes. And the joke is pretty philosophical but an old one. It should do really well, it was the 80's kids staple growing up.

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There's definitely implied sexual assault; it's one of the things people kept questioning over the years. There were rumors Moore had confirmed no sexual assault, but no one can seem to find where he said it.

Rated R is where it should have been. The best part about these announcements has been the resurrection of the pulled Batgirl cover that I thought really nailed the overall tone of that comic. Joker wanted to break people's psyches; personal opinion is that that's considerably more fucked up than just beating Jason Todd with a crowbar.

LadyVex_sl said:

There's definitely implied sexual assault; it's one of the things people kept questioning over the years. There were rumors Moore had confirmed no sexual assault, but no one can seem to find where he said it.

Rated R is where it should have been. The best part about these announcements has been the resurrection of the pulled Batgirl cover that I thought really nailed the overall tone of that comic. Joker wanted to break people's psyches; personal opinion is that that's considerably more fucked up than just beating Jason Todd with a crowbar.

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Then it's definitely been too long for me. I literally have the original sitting in a box somewhere in the garage. The art was incredible too.

Jait_sl said:

Then it's definitely been too long for me. I literally have the original sitting in a box somewhere in the garage. The art was incredible too.

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I don't have the original sadly; I was about 5 when it released. It is however, my favorite, and has been for many years. I buy a new copy every time they re-release it. (If you have the original though, some copies have Barbara's breasts exposed and others do not; the one that was toned down seeming to hint more at assault. Take that with a grain of salt though.)

But, yea. It was left largely ambiguous, and there's evidence both ways - Joker raped someone in another comic (Jonny Frost's wife) so it's not completely out of character for him. I think that at this stage, it's largely assumed there was sexual assault, but the rape thing is more questionable.

That on top of the whole idea of wanting to break both Barbara and Jim, makes me lean towards it being true. Regardless, even a hint of it (cuz there certainly is that) would probably put it solidly in the R category.

It's also why I was super annoyed with them pulling the variant cover of Batgirl. It was spot on for the total breaking down of Barbara's body and mind in that comic. The whole "Superman wouldn't have cried over Doomsday!" Well, hey, maybe he would have if Doomsday had sexually fucking assaulted him.

People have found quotes from Moore both ways; he's been somewhat inconsistent. There was a pretty chilling quote (not confirmed) from him that said Joker did rape her, but it wasn't in any of the 3 orifices; it was in the wound. Which is all sorts of fucked up. (But explains the splash of blood on her body in the panels.)

Anyways, yea. R rating.

LadyVex_sl said:

It's also why I was super annoyed with them pulling the variant cover of Batgirl. It was spot on for the total breaking down of Barbara's body and mind in that comic. The whole "Superman wouldn't have cried over Doomsday!" Well, hey, maybe he would have if Doomsday had sexually fucking assaulted him.

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Wanting to do a variant cover that referenced The Killing Joke was fine but I don't think it made any sense to go that route. They had just relaunched the Batgirl comic and went on to immediately bury their own character. They should have gone with something that put over both the Joker for whatever anniversary it was and their relaunched Batgirl at the same time.

The only thing about the sexual assuault is if you think the Joker is a sexual being at all. Even with Harley Quinn THIRSTY for that Joker dick around its down to your own context to the character. Outside of the Arkham Games and MAYBE some design choices in the Morrison run I have never thought of him as a person who even cares about sexuality. When I first read the Killing Joke I never thought it was presented that way. Moore was never shy on putting implications of sexual assault in a book if was in there. I always saw it as when he lost his pigments he lost his humanity, and his relationship with Harley Quinn is completely one sided and sociopathic.

I also don't get where people think Batman killed the Joker in that story.

radditsu_sl said:

The only thing about the sexual assuault is if you think the Joker is a sexual being at all. Even with Harley Quinn THIRSTY for that Joker dick around its down to your own context to the character. Outside of the Arkham Games and MAYBE some design choices in the Morrison run I have never thought of him as a person who even cares about sexuality. When I first read the Killing Joke I never thought it was presented that way. Moore was never shy on putting implications of sexual assault in a book if was in there. I always saw it as when he lost his pigments he lost his humanity, and his relationship with Harley Quinn is completely one sided and sociopathic.

I also don't get where people think Batman killed the Joker in that story.

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It's not about caring about sex or sexuality; it's about doing what was most likely to cause Gordon to lose his fucking mind and become just like him.

To that extent, I'd think the Joker was quite capable of going very far. Rape isn't about sex; it's about power and the complete ownership of someone. I'm not saying that it absolutely happened - it was left ambiguous for a reason, and I think the ambiguity even speaks to the tone. It is very Joker-like to do it, but never say it outright. Keeping you guessing, especially the readers, is a real mindfuck.

And again, this is a question fans have asked themselves for years. This is a movie for the fans, and as such will probably keep it pretty true to the source material. Anything that could be considered in that vein, is going to nab an R rating.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Wanting to do a variant cover that referenced The Killing Joke was fine but I don't think it made any sense to go that route. They had just relaunched the Batgirl comic and went on to immediately bury their own character. They should have gone with something that put over both the Joker for whatever anniversary it was and their relaunched Batgirl at the same time.

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I'm just more or less talking about it against the people that made a stink about how Barbara wouldn't have reacted that way. They compared her torment to say, Jason Todd being beaten to death or Superman being killed by Doomsday, but the Joker went much farther in his attempt to break down Barbara/Jim, so it makes sense for her to react that way. (Sort of out of her mind terrified.)

Plus it's just a really cool cover.



Plus people need to get the fuck over variant covers.

Yea, I was a really big fan of that cover.

It's a fine variant cover, it just doesn't make much business sense to use it after you'vejustrebooted Barbara into a perky teen college something lol selfies. There she is, right there in her new costume, placed back at her lowest point so we can put over the Joker for the Nth time. They should have went with something that made both characters look strong. The story of Barbara Gordon isn't that the Joker tortured and paralyzed her, it's that she went through everything he could dish out and still came out the other end a hero. It's her brand new comic, find a way to make her look like a hero.

radditsu_sl said:

I also don't get where people think Batman killed the Joker in that story.

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Here Grant Morrison can explain it for you.

It might not be true but it is an interpretation.