Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)
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Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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DC didn't follow any of the advice he gave about staying true to the source material.
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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Superman isnt the deepest character in the universe, compared to Batman hes pretty dam boring. Sure he has super powers but hes literally all HulkSmash! without the interesting rage and violence. Batman does alot of thinking and planning and Superman is the boring version of brute force. Someone recently mentioned why Capt America works and prior to Winter Soldier i didnt give a dam about him, but he was so fuckin well done in that movie that its hard to deny him in any way now.
BvS was the train wreck we all expected. It was full of pointless scenes and they tried to hard to start Justice League in 1 movie because most of those characters cannot carry their own solo film of DC is too dam impatient to do it the way Marvel did.
BvS was the train wreck we all expected. It was full of pointless scenes and they tried to hard to start Justice League in 1 movie because most of those characters cannot carry their own solo film of DC is too dam impatient to do it the way Marvel did.
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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I think they have sufficient characters that can carry a solo film just fine, provided the movies are well made to begin with. I think their approach is something of a hedge against comic movies in general going out of vogue before they can get in on the action.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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it is.. and it isn't.
first, history. Superheroes used to kill. they STOPPED, not because from Prohibition, to WW1, and WW2, Americans somehow thought good guys don't kill bad guys... But instead, thanks to Comics Code Authority censoring comics.
And then with that, applying it to saturday morning cartoons. Between the CCA outright censoring, and network censoring kids programming, everyone adopted "no kill" rules, and/or what violence there was, super cartoony.
As the CCA was dropped, much of this no kill has gone. Marvel did most of the legwork. as well as, Image comics. DC does have killers. but, has largely kept its trinity, with the no kill. the "iconic" nature of the brand is something they really pushed. Wonderwoman notably is the one that kills the shit out of people the most. (WW hates necks.)
Daredevil is very expressly Christian. Thou shalt not kill, is a very big point for his character.
Batman is an utter failure. Batman is a victim of status quo. Batman SHOULD have retired by now. The Joker should be dead or in jail. Catwoman, Ivy, Freeze, NIgma, SHOULD have reformed by now. but status quo. And character development they get, aid, advancement.. is reset. Nigma cured, and working along side Batman? lolnope. Grimdark statusquo. hes even more crazy then before. a rapist, a murderer, etc..
Status quo prevents the system from working. Arkham is a hellhole. Batman inexplicably keeps sending people there, magically thinking they will get help or something? No kill, works when redemption is possible. Forever ongoing American comics, ensure that never happens.
Harley Quinn might be the only one to actually get that 2nd chance. Her public awareness seems to be totally at odds where her characterization for the most part. so actually having her move towards that independent anti-hero might actually stick.
Superman can largely stand above it. As well as the Flash. These guys have the power to take down people nonviolently, and thus realistically the chance to actually solve problems, and not just murder the opposition.
My opinion is most should be, "well the goal is to save lives, solve problems, and killing is a last resort. but, bro, you got a gun to that girls head, taking you out."
Zyke
Silver Knight of the Realm
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I just saw it. I'll hop on bored with the minority of people in this thread who enjoyed the movie. Was it perfect? No. But all the criticism of "it's too serious" "it's too dark"...who cares? Why do comic book movies have to be all bright colors and witty humor. There's no reason you can't have a serious comic book movie. I mean, it certainly had issues, but the dark tone/lack of humor was not one of them to me. It's also nice to see actual people fighting, instead of the Avenger's fighting groups of aliens/robots every time with no face or personality. Probably why the last Captain American was so good - they weren't just fighting the equivalent of mindless zombie hordes. I still like the marvel movies a great deal, but the fact that DCU isn't trying to make the same movies as Marvel isn't a bad thing to me.
Batman not giving a fuck and just killing the shit out of people was certainly a surprise, but personally I take it to be this is a batman who's been pushed over the edge. One of his robin's seems to have been killed and he watched a ton of his employees die to some aliens who could kill the human race (and some of them tried already). He's psychologically in a different place than a more optimistic and idealistic (and younger) batman. I don't see anything particularly wrong with that, it makes sense. He's still human after all, and he's not perfect. Batman purists might hate it, but I liked batfleck.
As for superman, boyscout supes is boring as fuck to me, though to be fair I've never been a superman fan. I like this conflicted, more "human" superman who isn't perfect in every way. It's incredibly boring to have a character with no faults or internal conflicts and a constant sunny disposition as the world is ending around him. At least this one has some character, even if he lacks some charisma. Obviously this is a controversial opinion, but I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that way.
I do agree though about Lex. It wasn't Lex. It was white collar joker, and I really wasn't a fan of that. It didn't really make sense either that he could just walk around the kyptonian ship with a dead zod with apparently no one the wiser, regardless of whether he has access or not.
The fight scenes were great though. Batman beating down supes was incredibly satisfying, and I really liked the parallels to The Dark Knight Returns, both in the fight and in the cemetery, though the roles reversed in the latter. I'd also be surprised if he doesn't somehow come back, though I'm honestly surprised they had the balls to leave him dead at the end of the movie to begin with.
As for superman, boyscout supes is boring as fuck to me, though to be fair I've never been a superman fan. I like this conflicted, more "human" superman who isn't perfect in every way. It's incredibly boring to have a character with no faults or internal conflicts and a constant sunny disposition as the world is ending around him. At least this one has some character, even if he lacks some charisma. Obviously this is a controversial opinion, but I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that way.
I do agree though about Lex. It wasn't Lex. It was white collar joker, and I really wasn't a fan of that. It didn't really make sense either that he could just walk around the kyptonian ship with a dead zod with apparently no one the wiser, regardless of whether he has access or not.
The fight scenes were great though. Batman beating down supes was incredibly satisfying, and I really liked the parallels to The Dark Knight Returns, both in the fight and in the cemetery, though the roles reversed in the latter. I'd also be surprised if he doesn't somehow come back, though I'm honestly surprised they had the balls to leave him dead at the end of the movie to begin with.
PatrickStar
Trakanon Raider
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Lots of problems and there were some good scenes, but there was too much disjointed mess in between them. I don't regret watching it, but there is no re-watch ability here.
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Because Superman is supposed to be the day, and Batman the night. Even in the movie, Lex says it would be a fight between day and night. Superman operates in the day, because he's superpowered and can do what he wants when he wants. Batman operates in the night, because he believes that being a symbol of fear, his costume won't look right in the day. Which is why in the Bale movies, he refrained from putting it on during the day. Remember in the one movie, where to save the CPA, his drove his Lamborghini into the bad guys, and said it was a wreck? Because he didn't believe Batman would work in the day. This is also why Superman and Batman don't get along, as Batman is much more brutal than Superman. He's brutal because people won't fear him other wise. Superman thinks it's too much. They offset each other, as a duo and also in the JLA. Batman steers the JLA to a dark place. Superman steers the league to optimistic, but sometimes unrealistic places. They balance each other.
Yet, in the movie, all we got was dark and darker, instead of yin/yang. They totally screwed the pooch. As one reviewer said it, Snyder et all do not understand the psychology of the characters, so whenever they get in trouble on where to go in the script, they just make a big fight with lots of 'splosions. They totally missed it.
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Zyke
Silver Knight of the Realm
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Great response. Isn't that somewhat what we got though? Beating us over the head with angelic Superman and all the constant god references, and Batman going off the rails the whole movie with superman thinking he's going too far. And even all the controversy about superman messing things up by not thinking things through, it's not really him - it's Luther setting him up for the negative PR to try to turn the world against him. I also saw an interesting response where Alfred says at some point that men who feel powerless often compromise their ideology - that's exactly what Batman is going through.
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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We got dark and darker, although I'm not sure who was the darkest. Superman II and Man of Steel mirror each other. In Superman II, Supes allows himself to look like a coward, fleeing rather than endanger New York City. Man of Steel, he's indiscriminantly blowing up buildings in NYC (the equivalent of eleven September 11ths). They've become dark copies of each other. And now that Snyder got his hands on Batman, he's made him a serial killer. Cross the street without looking both ways and he kills you.
It's character assassination of both Superman and Batman, plain and simple. Get Snyder off of this. I don't want to see Snyder's take on the Batman series. Guess what? He's in charge of that. So expect a trilogy of the "Dark Defender."
Ridiculous. It pisses me off so much, I'm just going to pop an Avengers or Ant Man blu ray in and veg out. At least with Marvel, you are going have fun. I watch Deadpool today again and giggled the whole time.
Randin
Trakanon Raider
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Just got back from seeing it. It was okay; not spectacular, but not nearly as bad as I was fearing based on the reviews. Really, while I have some minor complaints, there were only three major ones:
-Showing Doomsday in the fucking trailer was pants-on-head retarded.
-The way they went with Lex was baffling. That's one thing the reviews didn't exaggerate in the least.
-Really, the biggest problem the movie had was that the movie spent too much time dealing with secret identities, and not enough time dealing with the super heroes. The fact that Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent got more screen time than Batman and Superman is a big part of the reason the movie felt like it dragged in the middle.
That said, when we had super heroes on screen doing super hero shit, the movie was fun. Superman fought like the near-omnipotent god-being he is, and Batman moved like a live-action Arkham. Wonder Woman was decent, but the others felt too blatantly like DC taking shortcuts to build their own Avengers franchise.
And I have to say, I'm very much on board with Batfleck now (although I'm still a little iffy on the suit). Batman does kill in this one, but it (mostly) wasn't as over the top as I was fearing from the reviews (really, some complaints made it sound like this was going to be fucking Rorshach in a bat costume, where really, it was just Batman being willing to kill when necessary). And aside from the killing, this felt like both a better Batman and a better Bruce Wayne than the Bale movies.
-Showing Doomsday in the fucking trailer was pants-on-head retarded.
-The way they went with Lex was baffling. That's one thing the reviews didn't exaggerate in the least.
-Really, the biggest problem the movie had was that the movie spent too much time dealing with secret identities, and not enough time dealing with the super heroes. The fact that Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent got more screen time than Batman and Superman is a big part of the reason the movie felt like it dragged in the middle.
That said, when we had super heroes on screen doing super hero shit, the movie was fun. Superman fought like the near-omnipotent god-being he is, and Batman moved like a live-action Arkham. Wonder Woman was decent, but the others felt too blatantly like DC taking shortcuts to build their own Avengers franchise.
And I have to say, I'm very much on board with Batfleck now (although I'm still a little iffy on the suit). Batman does kill in this one, but it (mostly) wasn't as over the top as I was fearing from the reviews (really, some complaints made it sound like this was going to be fucking Rorshach in a bat costume, where really, it was just Batman being willing to kill when necessary). And aside from the killing, this felt like both a better Batman and a better Bruce Wayne than the Bale movies.
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Ok just finished watching this via the internet. glad I didn't pay money for it.
Overall i'd give it a solid 6/10. Better than The force awakens, but still pretty mediocre.
The thing is it's actually not terrible, and if you just skip to 1hour in and start the movie from there, i'd give it a solid 7/10.
It's not like there is a coherent plot or any back story that you are missing. Just start the film with batman going after the lexcorp truck with the kryptonite in it, superman stands in his way, then they have a fender bender and Superman doesn't exchange his insurance information with batman and voila, about as well crafted a reason for them not to like each other as anything this movie tries to create.
I'm not really sure how this leads up to justice league. It's an older version of batman, lex luthor junior? the Joker is gone, it's a robin who went rogue and became the joker? (idk that's what it's hinting at, suicide squad i'm sure will fill us in). It's like they are just skipping the build up movies and just doing ensembles. Next film they are going straight to darkseid, fuck solo films.
If you just disregard the batman mythos and see this as an oldman batman (like old man logan) it kinda makes sense. And yeah aflecks take on old man no fucks given batman is pretty good, he has the only action scenes, it's basically a batman movie.
So yeah it leaves me cautiously optimistic about the affleck solo batman films and a solid pass on justice league.
Overall i'd give it a solid 6/10. Better than The force awakens, but still pretty mediocre.
The thing is it's actually not terrible, and if you just skip to 1hour in and start the movie from there, i'd give it a solid 7/10.
It's not like there is a coherent plot or any back story that you are missing. Just start the film with batman going after the lexcorp truck with the kryptonite in it, superman stands in his way, then they have a fender bender and Superman doesn't exchange his insurance information with batman and voila, about as well crafted a reason for them not to like each other as anything this movie tries to create.
I'm not really sure how this leads up to justice league. It's an older version of batman, lex luthor junior? the Joker is gone, it's a robin who went rogue and became the joker? (idk that's what it's hinting at, suicide squad i'm sure will fill us in). It's like they are just skipping the build up movies and just doing ensembles. Next film they are going straight to darkseid, fuck solo films.
If you just disregard the batman mythos and see this as an oldman batman (like old man logan) it kinda makes sense. And yeah aflecks take on old man no fucks given batman is pretty good, he has the only action scenes, it's basically a batman movie.
So yeah it leaves me cautiously optimistic about the affleck solo batman films and a solid pass on justice league.
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To take a break from all the hate, and recognize some good parts of the movie. The best lines from the film are batman's speech as he's pushing supe's shit in:
Batman, after he hits supe with a kryptonite grenade:
"breath it in. That's fear.
You're not brave. Men are brave."
Batman, after he KO's superman:
"I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason.
My parent's taught me a different lesson, dying in the gutter for no reason at all.
They taught me the world only makes sense, if you force it to."
Batman, as he's about to kill superman:
"You were never a god. You were never even a man."
"breath it in. That's fear.
You're not brave. Men are brave."
Batman, after he KO's superman:
"I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason.
My parent's taught me a different lesson, dying in the gutter for no reason at all.
They taught me the world only makes sense, if you force it to."
Batman, as he's about to kill superman:
"You were never a god. You were never even a man."
Miguex
The lad himself
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Taking a shit after a night of binge drinking and eating at Taco Bell is better than The Force Awakens, so that isn't saying much.