Bioshock Infinite

Tuco_sl said:

Yeah cause you're probably going to use your duplo-blox console controller to play it, so you'll need it to be slow paced.

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Even if I was using it with myMost Awesome Mouse in the World Logitech G9, I still wouldn't want it to be a game paced like Doom/Quake. That shit has a time and a place and it'snotin a setting like the Bioshock games.

Vaclav_sl said:

Console controllers are just as good for FPSing once you adapt to them, the process does take a while however.

Plenty of console only FPSs created the fast paced definition we know today. And Doom/Quake (probably Unreal too but haven't played it recently unlike the other two) are paced pretty similarly to Bioshock 1 during the clearing aspect with explore segments between and the addon stuff like hacking being the only large differences.

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Console lovers bring this up time and time again, but the actual research tells a different story.

http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/?p=3235
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/ga...eyboard-mouse/

The best console FPS players consistently lose to the best Keyboard+Mouse players. Assuming the actual players are the same species (and not that console players are some sort of sub-human race as is often thought ), then clearly the control scheme is sub-par for the format.

Vaclav_sl said:

Console controllers are just as good for FPSing once you adapt to them, the process does take a while however.

Plenty of console only FPSs created the fast paced definition we know today. And Doom/Quake (probably Unreal too but haven't played it recently unlike the other two) are paced pretty similarly to Bioshock 1 during the clearing aspect with explore segments between and the addon stuff like hacking being the only large differences.

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That is so not even close to true.

Try playing tribes:ascend with a controller. I dare you.

Shrug maybe its my hands (they're weird due to genetics - basically my ring and pinky are useless) but I don't find a mouse or trackball any better once I adapted outside of explicitly sniping.(and we're talking $60-100 range "gaming" mice and Trackman Marble's - not shit)

But as stated I'm pretty much down two fingers so there's obviously some odd factors in my opinion on such.

But I can state just logically strafing at odd angles is something very challenging to do witk Kb/mouse - the 8 cardinal are easy but SSW for example is very challenging.

So there are some absolutes in improvement that aren't debatable (although their usefullness could be debated)

And I have a hard time taking those articles seriously the tone in the first reminds me of the early 90s article PCGamer wrote praising joystick for the FPSs of the era over keyboard. Which I never agreed with.

"Try playing a game, with a controller, that was never designed to be played with a controller. I dare you."

But seriously.

Can anyone say Bioshock would not have been a better game with Metroid primes combat instead? Remove the generic FPS. And replace it with a part environment based progression, and whatever kind of shooter you want to call prime.
I mean think about it. Metroid prime gameplay, in Bioshock story/environment. Game of all time? (ps, I might have just described batman:AA)

Wiimote numchuck+mouse might be the best.

Lenas_sl said:

"Try playing a game, with a controller, that was never designed to be played with a controller. I dare you."

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so you admit fps have to be dumbed down to make controllers competitive to mouse+KB. ok.

Caliane_sl said:

so you admit fps have to be dumbed down to make controllers competitive to mouse+KB. ok.

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They don't. That's silly and always been the most retarded argument ever.

Comparing someone playing competitive multiplayer with a Mouse+KB Vs Controller is also silly. The speed and accuracy of a stick isnevergoing to compare to what a mouse can do.

Controllers are completelyadequatefor any Single Player or Co-operative shooter experience though and there's nothing made thatcouldn'tbe played on one, even if you couldn't play itas well. They're also fine for people playing against each other, it just doesn't result in the same level of "serious business" competitive multiplayer that Mouse Vs Mouse has.

This entire thing is completely irrelevant for a Bioshock thread either way.

Caliane: Mechwarrior style control sets that encourage people to buy overlays for the keyboard weren't generally considered a positive.

Flight Sim detailed controls and "jump in and have fun" don't really mesh well. That's not a console thing, its a widening your market thing.

I remember getting Falcon 4 home and having to study the controls for HOURS just to be able to successfully take off - decreased tedium is not a bad thing.

I just can't agree that Bioshock would have any value added if I had the ability to jump 180 headshot an enemy.

That is a great point Sean - I have been exclusively talking singleplayer (and rarely coop for trophies). I do love MP in some games but FPS isn't that genre besides TF2 types that have classes.

And absolutely Lenas - you were supposed to be a normal guy in 1 and a walking behemoth on 2 - expecting them to perform superhuman speed like that would've certainly diminished the characterization some.

Lenas_sl said:

I just can't agree that Bioshock would have any value added if I had the ability to jump 180 headshot an enemy.

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I don't think anyone is saying bioshock should have been a fast paced action FPS.
The opposite.

Tuco complained about the boring generic console fps.

I and I think vaclav originally stated, that the games fps was in a middle ground. it was supposed to be more like a tactical fps, or a survival horror. Slower, deliberate, and with few encounters. But either poor balance, or being shipped too early crippled the combat design, resulting in the game being played like as generic fps where it was most effective to just run up and shoot shit in the face.
As I stated, the game would have been much more enjoyable with metroid prime, or Arkham combat mechanics. Barely Fps at all.

They have stated in the past that they scaled down the difficulties from planned prelaunch and the PS3 only Impossible mode with Vita Chambers off was how Hard was initially planned. And launch version Hard was design version Normal etc.

If you get the chance try it on PS3 with Impossible mode and no Vitachambers (and no chain saving) - that really was how it was intended on Hard originally. And for the majority of the game "charge and rape face" doesn't work on Impossible.

Their intent becomes pretty clear on the appropriate mode.

(Similar can be said of most SH types/subtypes that offer difficulty switches although most don't jack their intended difficulty - but for example think of the recent REs low difficulties can be played largely FPSy but if you through on Professional suddenly everything matters unless you trivialized things with upgrade farming)