Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

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Arden

Arden

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Creslin said:
One thing to remember is there were literally world wars fought in part over establishing the current international banking system. This idea that the world governments are just going to give up their power over currency is crazy to me, its a power that is probably on par with a governments monopoly on violence in terms of marking what we all consider a functional legitimate government.

Maybe it happens some day but it would be a totally different looking world. And really a stable bitcoin that just holds its value and increases basically on par with inflation isn't what any BTC investor is looking for, it is a speculative asset that people envision for some reason growing in real value, and in the short term maybe it is, but in the long term it is insane to think that is sustainable. A currency pegged at some point in time that just keeps up with inflation, sure maybe I believe that, basically a more fair version of a T bond, but an investment that produces real alpha long term but invests in nothing, produces nothing and has no risk?
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I haven't forgotten Bretton Woods, don't worry. If you couldn't tell from my post, I have a decent concept of the gravity of what it would take to change the current paradigm. That said, all paradigms change eventually.

I totally get your skepticism (and everyone's skepticism, because you are in the majority) about the possibility of crypto, specifically BTC, taking over as the global reserve currency. I'm not saying it's inevitable, but I think there's a higher chance of it than you think.

Do a deep dive into the economics of BTC. A DEEP DIVE. Because that's what it takes. I can't tell you how many people start out as crypto skeptics and do a true deep dive and come out as its biggest advocates. It's a really long list.
 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

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Lanx said:
3080 is throttled, you need a 3090 to mine w/o being throttled but there were was is? work arounds to unthrottle up to 80%, but they patch too, you have to google
Click to expand...

Punched 3090 into the Nicehash calculator and that bumps it up from 2.75/day to... 3.15/day.

Would be cool if there were external mining tools that I could get and run instead of the computer. Like a device whose only purpose is mining and getting a better hash out of it.

Something like....this: Used - Like New: Bitmain Antminer L3+ with Bitmain Offical Power Supply Scrypt Asic Bitcoin Miner Bitminer L3+ Crypto Mining - Newegg.com
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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Rajaah said:
Was wondering about that. The rewards are already diminished to where it's barely profitable with a single 3080 and I'm not sure who's really bothering with it outside of enthusiasts and poor folx who could use $3 a day (and are less likely to have a 3080). So basically enthusiasts.
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Uhhhh. There are multimillion dollar mining farms setup in many countries around the world and even some governments are operating them.

Of course your single 3080 is going to generate peanuts.

They also setup at the cheapest energy sources. Whereas you'll be paying top dollar to power your gpu, most likely. Add on the cost of replacing your gpu once it hits its life expectancy much faster than usual, and your profitability is certainly negligible.

Imo it really doesn't pay to be a hobbyist miner... maybe try a random shitcoin and hope you picked the right one to gain some value, idk.
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

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Antminer L3+ up there does about $65 a month, at $650 or so, so no profits until 10 months in.

The best one seems to be Antminer L7 which pulls about $1000 a month. However it costs $27k, so no profits until...more than two years in.

Factor in the halving (that'll be reached before you even reach profitability with the worth-it miners) and I just don't see any of this being worth the trouble at this point. If you can afford to spend $50k on two L7's, in about 2.5 years you'll have recouped the loss and be getting around $1k/mo between the two of them post-halving, which I guess is pretty good for being entirely passive.

Anything less than that is hardly even worth the trouble. $65/mo? Spend two hours Uber driving one afternoon a month and buy Bitcoin with it and you've achieved the same thing without using any electricity or having a down-payment.
 
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M

Melicant

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Rajaah said:
Punched 3090 into the Nicehash calculator and that bumps it up from 2.75/day to... 3.15/day.

Would be cool if there were external mining tools that I could get and run instead of the computer. Like a device whose only purpose is mining and getting a better hash out of it.

Something like....this: Used - Like New: Bitmain Antminer L3+ with Bitmain Offical Power Supply Scrypt Asic Bitcoin Miner Bitminer L3+ Crypto Mining - Newegg.com
Click to expand...
It is usually less than 10% difference in mining between a 3080 and a 3090. Non-LHR 3080s are preferred over 3090s for mining for numerous reasons, inlcuding thermals and initial cost. Nicehash and others have also unlocked full potential on LHR cards now, so if your 3080 is the LHR variant that isn't a concern any more. Etherium mining will change drastically before the end of the year, and opinions are all over the place as to the future of GPU mining.
 
Flobee

Flobee

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Creslin said:
One thing to remember is there were literally world wars fought in part over establishing the current international banking system. This idea that the world governments are just going to give up their power over currency is crazy to me, its a power that is probably on par with a governments monopoly on violence in terms of marking what we all consider a functional legitimate government.

Maybe it happens some day but it would be a totally different looking world. And really a stable bitcoin that just holds its value and increases basically on par with inflation isn't what any BTC investor is looking for, it is a speculative asset that people envision for some reason growing in real value, and in the short term maybe it is, but in the long term it is insane to think that is sustainable. A currency pegged at some point in time that just keeps up with inflation, sure maybe I believe that, basically a more fair version of a T bond, but an investment that produces real alpha long term but invests in nothing, produces nothing and has no risk?
Click to expand...
I think the idea is that Governments won't have a choice. People get a say too, and Bitcoin has potential to be the fairest monetary system we've ever had. If people start to grok that I'm not sure it can be stopped. Government is just people, and people want good money. Maybe less outlandish than it seems at first.

Bitcoin will be 'stable' when it is the unit of account. In fact, it will be deflationary, which is to say that a gallon of milk may cost 1000 Satoshi's in 2030, but will only cost 500 Satoshi's by 2050. We've only ever experiences inflationary currencies, and that isn't how a Bitcoin standard would work. If you want to know more about this idea look into Jeff Booth, he wrote a whole book on the concept of technological deflation and how our monetary system is actually fighting against the direction that technology is taking us. Everything should be getting cheaper as we become more efficient as a society.

It isn't obvious at first because its a complete paradigm shift from how things currently work. Imagine a world where the change in your piggy bank increased in value over the years...
 
Flobee

Flobee

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On this topic, I'm about half way through watching this and its worth a share. Saifedean is the author of "The Bitcoin Standard" which is probably the most recommended and shared Bitcoin book ever and "The Fiat Standard" which uses the same lens to examine our current monetary system. Lex, to his credit, is asking some very good and very basic questions and letting Saif run with them. Questions like "What is money" and "What is Economics". I think there is a lot of value in his answers.

 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

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A few random thoughts: Was hoping for a weekend rebound due to a large volume of buys once people got their Friday checks and grabbed some discount Bitcoin. There was a small rebound Friday morning and it very quickly trailed back down. The only positive about a potential drop is if you're out and can get back in at a lower level. However, already being significantly down, there's not much appeal to doing that. Bitcoin also has a ton of resistance in the high 20's, so "getting back in at a lower level" seems like not a very sure thing at all.

If I had a lot of USD laying around, a crashes like this would be a lot more exciting. Unfortunately these crashes have caught me during my poorest time of the year (May-Aug) 2 years in a row.
 
reavor

reavor

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Luna making a comeback...?
1652541830467.png
 
Arden

Arden

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Here's how it works: there's a big pool of money out there. The money comes from idiots trying to make easy money in the crypto market. If you want to use the lawyerly term, you can call them "unsophisticated investors."

Now, most of these idiots don't have a lot of money, but there's a lot of idiots, so the pool is pretty big. And what the scammers do is they take a big towel and they dip it into the pool, soak up a bunch of that money, move it over to their bank account, and wring it out. Then they dip towel back in the pool and do it again.

What's about to happen with Luna is what that process looks like. The scammers are pretty smart, so they use a lot of different towels and they all look a little different, but they all do essentially the same thing. And the idiots, well they're idiots, so some of them fall for the same scams over and over again.

These scammers are going to keep dipping, and they're going to keep wringing, until the pool is empty and their bank accounts are full. Then they will wait a while for the pool to refill, and do it all over again.

So my advice to you is to not be an idiot. Either don't put your money in the pool, or learn to recognize the towels.
 
Mist

Mist

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I think BTC and ETH will be nearly double where they are right now by January 2023. So if people have been waiting to get in, now is the time.
 
Punko

Punko

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Rajaah said:
Was wondering about that. The rewards are already diminished to where it's barely profitable with a single 3080 and I'm not sure who's really bothering with it outside of enthusiasts and poor folx who could use $3 a day (and are less likely to have a 3080). So basically enthusiasts.
Click to expand...

Having a large amount of solar panels really helps drive the cost down.
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

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Punko said:
Having a large amount of solar panels really helps drive the cost down.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my electric costs can be extremely low, depending on where I am at any given time.

Finally tapped out on Bitcoin during the late Saturday night bump.

Officially down to about 50% of what I started crypto with in January 2021, somehow, down from a high of 280% in October 2021. Though that doesn't factor in all the times I cashed out small amounts here and there, so it isn't actually as dire as 50% sounds.

Gonna wait and see what happens. If Bitcoin goes to the low 20's I could buy back in and recoup a lot of lost ground. It's gonna most likely be back up by the end of the year and definitely back up in 2024, so I don't think it's going to zero. Way too much volatility going on though.
 
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Mist

Mist

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Rajaah said:
Yeah, my electric costs can be extremely low, depending on where I am at any given time.

Finally tapped out on Bitcoin during the late Saturday night bump.

Officially down to about 50% of what I started crypto with in January 2021, somehow, down from a high of 280% in October 2021. Though that doesn't factor in all the times I cashed out small amounts here and there, so it isn't actually as dire as 50% sounds.

Gonna wait and see what happens. If Bitcoin goes to the low 20's I could buy back in and recoup a lot of lost ground. It's gonna most likely be back up by the end of the year and definitely back up in 2024, so I don't think it's going to zero. Way too much volatility going on though.
Click to expand...
So time to buy like 100k worth of BTC is what you're saying.
 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

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Mist said:
So time to buy like 100k worth of BTC is what you're saying.
Click to expand...

It pretty much is, and if it goes into the low 20's keep buying it. I'm just going to set some lower buys (20k or so) in case it dives, to recoup some loss, and buy more in that event. If I think it's gonna keep bouncing off 28k maybe I'll opt back in.

Diamondhanding was pretty ass lately. People who sold in October are probably sitting pretty, just wondering when to get back in.
 
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