Flobee
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Davos, she's owned by EU interests primarily I would say. Same as Yellen, the Big Guy, and a large portion of our current representation
Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies
- Thread starter Tripamang
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Arden
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Well boys, shit just got real. Got this email just now.
Edit: Heh, so much to unpack reading this "crypto primer" from Fidelity Crypto Trading with Fidelity | Discover Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency, ETFs and more. First thing I'm noticing is that they are referencing crypto as a digital currency and not a security.
Other thoughts: don't think it's coincidence this happened right after SBF was found guilty on all counts and don't think it's coincidence the Fidelity announcement came on a Friday night. I've got to believe a spot BTC ETF is imminent.
Edit: Heh, so much to unpack reading this "crypto primer" from Fidelity Crypto Trading with Fidelity | Discover Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency, ETFs and more. First thing I'm noticing is that they are referencing crypto as a digital currency and not a security.
Other thoughts: don't think it's coincidence this happened right after SBF was found guilty on all counts and don't think it's coincidence the Fidelity announcement came on a Friday night. I've got to believe a spot BTC ETF is imminent.
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But the crypto nerd in me will keep repeating the holy mantra....
"Not your keys.. not your coins.."
Are they just doing this as a custodial? Or are they developing an actual wallet with keys and such to store? Looking at that the only way it would be able to do those things would probably be as a custodial holder.
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ToeMissile
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Or partnering with someone else to do the holding while they’re the ‘front end’?
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True, but also if it's through Fidelity they could inadvertently become the easiest to use Fiat on/off ramp so long as their services include "Send crypto to my wallet for cold storage" and "receive crypto from an external source" (which they would have to do if they wanted people to move their coins into the Fidelity system.
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ToeMissile
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For sure, if they're serious about offering proper crypto services and not just "oh look, we're hip and cool too!"
Arden
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AFAIK right now Fidelity is just custodial. I don't believe you can move coins on or off. Basically, Fidelity only allows you to convert BTC or ETH to fiat and vice versa. It's not a true exchange and they don't offer true crypto wallets.
"Crypto people" aren't going to be very interested in the current version of fidelity for these reasons. But, tbf, Fidelity's target audience are those who have probably never even heard the expression "not your keys, not your crypto." I'm guessing Fidelity believes (and they are probably right) that there are a lot of investors who want access to BTC and ETH but have no interest in fucking around with Coinbase or Robinhood. Basically, normies who want to dip their toe into the crypto sphere but who want to do it with a big, familiar institution they trust and probably already have an established account with.
The news here isn't that there's a new crypto exchange on the block, it's that this is a pretty big indicator that there is still quite an appetite among both investors and financial institutions for crypto. It's another indicator that crypto (or at least BTC and ETH) isn't going anywhere. It makes crypto investment a little less speculative and makes ETH and BTC (imho) a little more viable as an alternative investment to securities and fiat. And right now we *really* need alternatives to those things.
When Robinhood first offered crypto it was similar to Fidelity. They offered a really limited number of coins and you couldn't move coins on or off the exchange. They've since expanded their crypto selection and enabled coin transfers. Will be interesting to see if Fidelity follows the same pattern.
"Crypto people" aren't going to be very interested in the current version of fidelity for these reasons. But, tbf, Fidelity's target audience are those who have probably never even heard the expression "not your keys, not your crypto." I'm guessing Fidelity believes (and they are probably right) that there are a lot of investors who want access to BTC and ETH but have no interest in fucking around with Coinbase or Robinhood. Basically, normies who want to dip their toe into the crypto sphere but who want to do it with a big, familiar institution they trust and probably already have an established account with.
The news here isn't that there's a new crypto exchange on the block, it's that this is a pretty big indicator that there is still quite an appetite among both investors and financial institutions for crypto. It's another indicator that crypto (or at least BTC and ETH) isn't going anywhere. It makes crypto investment a little less speculative and makes ETH and BTC (imho) a little more viable as an alternative investment to securities and fiat. And right now we *really* need alternatives to those things.
When Robinhood first offered crypto it was similar to Fidelity. They offered a really limited number of coins and you couldn't move coins on or off the exchange. They've since expanded their crypto selection and enabled coin transfers. Will be interesting to see if Fidelity follows the same pattern.
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Flobee
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Fidelity and traditional players like them will, IMO, never offer the ability to take possession of keys for anyone other than high end big money/institutional entities. These types of offerings along with the ETFs are regulatory capture. Literally being created for a future 6102 event.
This is expected and I would also assume that the ability to buy and control keys will see increased regulatory oversight and pressure in the future (see travel rules etc). Capital controls and closing the exits is the only way to effectively inflate the national debt away. Plan accordingly.
This is expected and I would also assume that the ability to buy and control keys will see increased regulatory oversight and pressure in the future (see travel rules etc). Capital controls and closing the exits is the only way to effectively inflate the national debt away. Plan accordingly.
Tmac
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I mean, part of me would actually be more comfortable having a custodian hold crypto for me. Losing access to my wallet is a legit fear and we’ve all heard enough horror stories.
There’s the obvious downsides to that, but it’s still appealing.
Arden
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Agreed. The whole "don't keep your coins on an exchange" things means a lot less if the "exchange" is something like Fidelity.
I get a little leery keeping my crypto on CB or RH, but I'd feel as comfortable keeping it on Fidelity as I would keeping my retirement on Fidelity- which I do.
If all you are doing is buying BTC or ETH as an investment and holding onto it with the intent on selling it for fiat down the road, then Fidelity is perfectly fine.
The issue comes if you want to:
1. Buy other coins with potentially better returns
2. Transfer coins (including BTC or ETH) that you obtain elsewhere TO Fidelity.
3. Transfer coins OFF Fidelity to sell elsewhere (say if Fidelity implements some awful exchange fee or something)
4. Stake your coins for residuals
5. Spend your coins directly without converting them back to fiat (not really an issue now but could be down the line)
Honestly, I suspect Fidelity will implement some of this stuff in the near future once new crypto investors get savvy to the various things you can do with crypto.
I'll be honest, I bought some ETH on PayPal when they first implemented crypto purchases. Once I realized what they were charging for purchases/sales compared to other exchanges I got annoyed and wanted to move my crypto off paypal. Not being able to do that without converting it back to fiat felt really restrictive.
I think they have since changed things to allow crypto transfers, but the experience taught me a lesson about keeping crypto on an exchange where you can't move it
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Rangoth
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As a serious investment point, I agree that the trust behind a name like Fidelity does counter some of the “not my wallet” fear people have. I get crypto can be a battle, not just on the investment angle, but the true no government angle. Different discussion for a different day.
‘however I will be watching this closely and probably buy 1-2BTC(or equivalent) on fidelity once offered. It’s a small position and BTC and crypto speculation aside, a name like fidelity getting involved I expect to be a fair market moving sized event.
‘however I will be watching this closely and probably buy 1-2BTC(or equivalent) on fidelity once offered. It’s a small position and BTC and crypto speculation aside, a name like fidelity getting involved I expect to be a fair market moving sized event.
Arden
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Flobee
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I would argue that the "no government" angle is the primary value behind Bitcoin, thus the entire point.
Nothing wrong chasing $ gains, but if Bitcoin "works" then you'll almost certainly regret not holding your keys. Believing otherwise is a fundamental misunderstanding of what you're buying.
Even
coins utility is found in on and off chain(L2) utility. Pure price exposure via a custodian is antithetical to their purpose
Nothing wrong chasing $ gains, but if Bitcoin "works" then you'll almost certainly regret not holding your keys. Believing otherwise is a fundamental misunderstanding of what you're buying.
Even
coins utility is found in on and off chain(L2) utility. Pure price exposure via a custodian is antithetical to their purpose
Rangoth
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yes, but not entirely.I would argue that the "no government" angle is the primary value behind Bitcoin, thus the entire point.
Nothing wrong chasing $ gains, but if Bitcoin "works" then you'll almost certainly regret not holding your keys. Believing otherwise is a fundamental misunderstanding of what you're buying.
Even
another angle for bitcoin, as an official currency, is supply control and traceability. The government can’t just “print more bitcoin” and the concept and way treat debt would have to significantly change as well. It is not only about the government not turning off your wallet. Not to mention the gov could still do something like a national wallet blacklist. Any legit business accepting coins from that wallet is in violation of blah blah blah law. Now even though your key, your wallet, good luck using those coins in the legal and legit day to day life we all live.
Flobee
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Right, if people don't control their own keys and don't run their own node, then we can't enforce monetary policy for the Bitcoin network and the government/custodians/whatever can print as many Bitcoin as they want. Custody is mandatory for Bitcoin to work. Part of the 21m limit working is that I don't accept the transaction if my node doesn't recognize your keys. And I don't run software on my node that allows rules that I don't accept. This is how the consensus is formed.
Regarding accepting blacklisted coins I suspect that there will be a period of time where legitimate self custodied coins (that weren't forfeited during a 6102 type event) will be dangerous to transact with. Just like it was illegal to use gold from 1933-1964 (link).
When I say people that don't care about custody don't understand what they're buying this is what I mean.
That being said if Bitcoin was used in an official capacity properly it would limit government spending and make a lot of the insanity we see today impossible. So we agree there
Nester
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I don't have much to add to the discussion beyond the following:
BOTH exchanges i used in 2017 to play this game went out of business and the owner stole all the crypto.
leaving anything with a 3rd party seems like a huge exposure to total loss.
Exchange fraud seems like likely than the asset tanking to Zero these days...
Be safe be smart.
BOTH exchanges i used in 2017 to play this game went out of business and the owner stole all the crypto.
leaving anything with a 3rd party seems like a huge exposure to total loss.
Exchange fraud seems like likely than the asset tanking to Zero these days...
Be safe be smart.
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