black islamist beheads British soldier in London

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Vaclav

Vaclav

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I was a Catholic deacon at one point - so I'd consider myself more versed than the average bear - but sure there's always opinion mixed in. But when you see some Protestant faiths that have readings from the OT the majority of the time, and support or disapprove activities out of the OT the majority of the time - it's hard to say "Well, that's just the OT that everyone ignores". Catholics do ignore the OT with few exceptions, Protestants are hit and miss - most of the major Protestant faiths officially don't get too OT involved, but a few do - and certainly individuals in those churches do.

(And of course there's always "secondary translation" as an argument too that does come up with many - but then again, if you're familiar with Muslims you'd know a great majority of Muslims take "secondary translation" on the violent bits as well)
 
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Asherah

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
Read up on OT vs NT brosephus. Please read a little before you start laying down judgements you know nothing about. There are a whole lot of intricacies to Christianity compared to Islam. They practice killing the infidel today in 2013.
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To be honest I don't think the actual text matters that much. The clergy are the lawyers of religion. I'm sure they can interpret almost any religious text to mean whatever they want given enough time and motivation.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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The thing is that I would say most of the Protestants/Catholics out there agree that the OT was written to show the difference that Jesus made in the NT. While the information in there isn't exactly irrelevant there was a lot of stuff there for the Jews as they were conquering their part of the world. Killing the non believers was a means to an end at the time. Something that is most definitely not the case any longer.

The Muslims have never had that switch. What they wrote was over 600 years after Jesus. The NT had been written by then even if it hadn't yet been compiled etc. The Christians at the time the Koran was written weren't killing Muslims in the streets. The First Crusade didn't happen for another 400 years.

The Muslims still follow every word of it today and they have never had a text that loosened up the killing. What they had on day one is what they still believe now.
 
Sebudai

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
I could tell you stories about childhood friends that have been "run out" of France because they were Christian and the muslims around them made their lives a living hell when they found out.

It is one of the most dangerous of the civilized countries for a Christian missionary to live in. You are safer in an undeveloped country full of malaria and dangerous snakes and such than as a Christian missionary than in France.
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lol
 
TrollfaceDeux

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hodj

hodj

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Vaclav_sl said:
Depending on the branch of Christianity - some weight OT very heavily. (For example all those against homosexuality - never mentioned in the NT, End of Days - not NT)
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Baptists definitely think homosex is banned by one of the post Matthew/Mark/Luke/John books. I think its Romans but fuck I can't recall for certain.

And, I dunno if this is different in Catholicism or not, but the entire book of Revelations to Baptists is pretty much all about the end of days. Its tied into Daniel's prophesies as well, though, from the OT.

Most of the really fucked up stuff (slaughter every man and every woman who has slept with someone, enslave the children, eye for an eye, etc) from the OT is in the first five books, which is the Jewish Torah, so most Christians I think look past that as basically "This was God's commandments to the Jews while they were taking the Holy Land for the first time from the Canaanites, it only really applies to Jewish people at that period in time."

Whether this outlook is realistic or factually based or not is entirely debateable, but I think this is how they perceive it.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Baptists I know all quote Leviticus personally in regards to homosexuality. ("If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable." - Leviticus 18) And while you'd be accurate on it's literal position for Revelations, it's not considered part of the NT for how its taught. (Even a few theologians have theorized it might actually have been misplaced during one of the many translations over the years or it's tone completely changed - some even go as far to state it wasn't about the End of Days but the end of the Roman empire as it was happening!)
 
Borzak

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http://news.yahoo.com/french-soldier...175831453.html

PARIS (AP) - A French soldier was stabbed in the throat in a busy commercial district outside Paris on Saturday, and France's president said authorities are investigating any possible links with the recent slaying of a British soldier.

President Francois Hollande said the identity of the attacker was unknown and cautioned against jumping to conclusions about the assault on the uniformed soldier in the La Defense shopping area. The life of the 23-year-old soldier was not in danger, the Interior Ministry said in a statement.
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hodj

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Yup its Romans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosex..._New_Testament

Romans 1:26-27 [edit]

Saint Paul writing his Epistles
In the Epistle to the Romans 1:26-27 (English Majority Text Version, EMTV), Paul writes
" For this reason [idolatry] God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

As with a lot of this, it comes down to who is doing the interpreting and what words are being translated into what, so of course its entirely debateable. But I was raised Southern Baptist, so I can explicitly remember shit like that passage being quoted as justification for being anti homosexuality.

The book of Revelations could definitely be speaking of Nero's reign, but it was pretty much written before the fall of the Western Roman empire by several hundred years (fall of Rome is like 455CE is when it was sacked, 476CE the last Western Roman emperor is deposed, book of Revelation was compiled between 70 and 90 CE, scholars believe) and close to 1000 before the fall of the Eastern Empire.

And yeah, the placement of books is entirely up to interpretation, so Revelations very well could go elsewhere, but it seems to make the most sense where it is in the context of a religious dogma. Every religion needs its Ragnarok.
 
TrollfaceDeux

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some people interpret that verse quite differently. By that homosexual association, it means to fight against lust and sexual deviance. It does not suggest that homosexualrelationsare bad. Much like so many other verses, urging man to stop committing lust in their mind against woman, it would naturally apply to homosexuality as well.
 
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Duppin_sl

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People who want to be bigots will twist whatever they have to in order to provide a justification for their actions.
 
hodj

hodj

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IRT trollface:

Right, and I basically said that, however, dogma exists, and I'd say a large portion of the die hard bible thumper protestants in the US think its interpreted the way it appears to be worded here, that men and men being attracted to one another, and women and women being attracted to one another, is in some way "unnatural" and therefore sinful.

But yes, I mean, there's certainly lots of ambiguity there because of translational differences.
 
Adebisi

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Why are we talking about shitty christian religions? I'm pretty sure this is a "what the fuck, islam?" thread.
 
hodj

hodj

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Because you aren't allowed to have a WTF Islam thread without someone trying to equate the Bible thumpers to the Jihadis, duh.

IRT Trollface: Gotcha, s'all good bro.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Trollface_sl said:
no man. i didn't suggest anything that you didn't suggest. just adding another interpretation.
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Indeed there is so many interpretations even of just the King James version - much less delving into other printings. I think when I realized that is when faith started its beginnings of disillusionment to me.
 
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