Breaking Bad

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BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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Lenas_sl said:
(They are)
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This is where you are wrong. I have extensively psychoanalyzed both characters who are real and complex humans. I have found that Gandalf IS gay for Dumbledore, but Dumbledore, while gay himself, does not return Gandalf's feelings but is actually into bears.
 
Cantatus

Cantatus

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Entire Breaking Bad series revealed as elaborate ?intervention? by Jesse?s parents

As Breaking Bad ended in the US, viewers were shocked to learn all five series were an elaborate set of staged scenes designed to wean protagonist Jesse Pinkman off drugs.

Series lead ?Walter White? was revealed to be an out of work teacher hired by the Pinkman family to show their son that ?drugs are bad?.

The series finale began with Jesse being released from his cage by his parents to the words, ?So Jesse, will you really stop taking drugs this time??

The character of Jesse was then sat down in front of all the other characters who explained in turn why they loved him and why they wanted him to ?get straight?.

As Jesse?s father Adam told him in the cold open, ?Sure, some people might call this tough love. But we had no choice. You had started smoking joints in the house.?

?We knew we were getting somewhere when we had that child shot and killed in front of you, but you still needed another little push, which included a series of vicious beatings at the hands of a neo-Nazi group of meth dealers.?

?Honestly, you will thank us for this in the long run. We love you Jesse and consider this 18 months well-spent.?
Breaking Bad concluded

The character of Walter White admitted the ruse had left him finding it difficult to secure any teaching work, and facing several federal indictments, but that numerous lucrative offers had come from strange Eastern European groups.

He told the group in a closing scene, ?I?ve always given Jesse the chance to show he had changed, even letting his girlfriend die at his parent?s request, to show him the way to a better path.?

?He just didn?t take it right away.?

?Still, it will be nice for Skyler and I to get back to normal.?

?It was a real shame about Hank though, but if his death goes some way towards helping Jesse stop using again, it will be worth it.?
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Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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BrutulTM_sl said:
This is where you are wrong. I have extensively psychoanalyzed both characters who are real and complex humans. I have found that Gandalf IS gay for Dumbledore, but Dumbledore, while gay himself, does not return Gandalf's feelings but is actually into bears.
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proper bears? or the kind that resemble kevin smith?
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C

Coren_sl

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Jait_sl said:
Look. You won the contest and all, but hearing folks say "You know...despite the fact the writer spelled it out and spoonfed us. I'm going to argue with the fiction and claim the writer was just being obtuse." is retarded
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He was nearly a pathological liar the entire damn series. He never did it for his family. He was offered help from DAY 1. By Hank, by Elliot. And that worked out real well for all of them.
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I think it's a bit of both though. When he started out, he definitely was doing it because he wanted to leave something to take care of his family. You see him do the math at one point to figure out how much he'd need to cover everything for Jr. and Holly etc, and his intent seemed to be to get that and quit.

Then he quickly found out that he liked it...was good at it...and felt alive.

One thing (just a general observation, not directed at anyone) that often seems to happen in these debates, is people forget that people aren't limited to only one reason for doing something. I'm sure that even as he realized he liked what he was doing, he was still doing it for his family, but because he found he liked it so much, he continued long after he didn't need to anymore.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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walt started "liking" his gangsta life right when he became heisenberg. for me the scene where walt is at the walmart or wherever it was and he noticed a guy buying matches to make meth, walt told him he was buying the wrong kind and needed to buy the ones with the individual books. he scared the guy off then he followed him to his RV. a big dude came out and walt stood up the guy and said. "stay out of my territory" and walked off like a boss. thats when heisenberg was born.
 
Lithose

Lithose

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Maester Chuk_sl said:
Ok lith. I think i get what you mean. Walt has never called a duck a frog or called a frog when there is nothing at all.My point about jesse is that walt used jesse to get into the meth business. He figured jesse was a weak punk that would always be his Igor to walt's dr frankenstein. Jesse was no igor. He turned on walt several times. But despite that and despite the fact that walt could have made a clean break from jesse. He still stuck with him. And it cost him dearly.

As i said earlier i agree with you that gretchen and eliot did something tangible to rub walt raw. However that does not mean walt is infallible about reading people and their motives
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Pretty much, yeah. Walt's never manufactured or fabricated a problem to justify his actions. He's always been pretty good about assessing the problem, and understanding it. The "lie" comes during his solutions. When people point to the "big lie" of the show "I'm doing this for my family", it's true, that was a lie--but the problem Walter assessed was true. He didn't "make up" his cancer or his financial crisis in order to justify his actions, he sat down and realized he needed precisely X amount of money if he didn't want his family destitute.

The lies came in how he went aboutdealingwith that problem, or, as I said at the start of this debate, his actions. Chaos is right, he didn'tneedto cook Meth, there were other ways out (Like swallowing his pride and working at Gray Matter)--but a series of events had dug into Walt's ego and pushed him to say this was the "only" solution. But it wasn't. Or in your example--Walt understood Jesse was a screw up. He knew it was a very real problem. His reaction to it? That was a delusion based on something he wanted. He kept assuming he could save Jesse, or at least "educate him" and mold him into something more. He couldn't, in the end, but that doesn't mean he didn't understand Jesse was a fuck up--he did. (And his plans, and the lengths he went to in order to manipulate Jesse, show that.)

Which, going back to Gray Matter--we've never seen Walt just "make up" a problem. The problems are always real. It's Walt's reactions that distorted by his ego. Given what we've seen in the series, it really doesn't hold water that Walt would just "make up" an affair or a coup in order to justify his rage. More than likely something along those linesactuallyhappened, and Walt's reaction was completely disproportionate to the problem. (Again: My theory, Gretchen's family said some off color remark about the company and not supporting it because Walt was a peon and Walt freaked out, left the company and Gretchen.)
 
Jait

Jait

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My opinions are never wrong, even when my opinions are saying your opinions are wrong.
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The entire point of that scene in the end was to confirm the suspicion many of us felt, that he had ALWAYS been doing this for himself. He wasn't trying to be coy or fuel speculation. It was the 11th hour confession.


How he rationalized it is an entirely different thing.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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Lithose_sl said:
Pretty much, yeah. Walt's never manufactured or fabricated a problem to justify his actions. He's always been pretty good about assessing the problem, and understanding it. The "lie" comes during his solutions. When people point to the "big lie" of the show "I'm doing this for my family", it's true, that was a lie--but the problem Walter assessed was true. He didn't "make up" his cancer or his financial crisis in order to justify his actions, he sat down and realized he needed precisely X amount of money if he didn't want his family destitute.

The lies came in how he went aboutdealingwith that problem, or, as I said at the start of this debate, his actions. Chaos is right, he didn'tneedto cook Meth, there were other ways out (Like swallowing his pride and working at Gray Matter)--but a series of events had dug into Walt's ego and pushed him to say this was the "only" solution. But it wasn't. Or in your example--Walt understood Jesse was a screw up. He knew it was a very real problem. His reaction to it? That was a delusion based on something he wanted. He kept assuming he could save Jesse, or at least "educate him" and mold him into something more. He couldn't, in the end, but that doesn't mean he didn't understand Jesse was a fuck up--he did. (And his plans, and the lengths he went to in order to manipulate Jesse, show that.)

Which, going back to Gray Matter--we've never seen Walt just "make up" a problem. The problems are always real. It's Walt's reactions that distorted by his ego. Given what we've seen in the series, it really doesn't hold water that Walt would just "make up" an affair or a coup in order to justify his rage. More than likely something along those linesactuallyhappened, and Walt's reaction was completely disproportionate to the problem. (Again: My theory, Gretchen's family said some off color remark about the company and not supporting it because Walt was a peon and Walt freaked out, left the company and Gretchen.)
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i think we all agree essentially on this. i think some people are saying walt overreacted based on an incident which wasnt that big a deal. i keep imagining some kind of three's company (yes, i am old) type of situation where walt hears gretchen on the phone or talking with her family and he thinks she is putting him down or talking about her affair with elliot while it was all just a big misunderstanding, but walt maybe feeling insecure due to his financial status thinks the worst and buggers off forever hating the two of them. this is a possibility. i am not saying thats probably what happened. i think walt is more levelheaded and intelligent than that. he would confirm his suspicions first before ditching his best friend and the love of his life.
 
Ambiturner

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I still think Walt was only half telling the truth when he said he cooked for himself. He certainly did love being Heisenberg, but got into it for his family and ultimately loved his family more. He chose to get out.

As for the Jesse issue, Hank's line about "Walt, you're the smartest guy I know.." line basically summed Walt up. Incredible genius except when it comes to people. It wasn't until he was in solitary for all those months that he finally understood.

His actions at the end guaranteed that while he wasn't going to be respected or loved, his family was going to be provided for.

As for Grimm, I'll have an avatar tomorrow
 
Lanx

Lanx

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you know, if we're talking about walt being a master deceiver and liar, he isn't, that's what the first scene of the hank death episode is supposed to show (besides the same cook place). That's his first real lie... not just to a person but to the love of his life. Now this isn't a, "oh i don't have cancer i'm not sick" kind of lie, you know the lie you give 10seconds of thought cuz you know deep down sooner or later your wife will find out. No he told a lie, a different kind of lie, that he will have to carry with him to his grave. And then when skylar bought it, the reaction on his face, was like "oh now that was easy"...
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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I thought of Lost pretty much immediately after the finale as well, but I don't know what kind of douche you have to be to have the impulse to go and insult the guy that made the other show 3 years later.
 
Fight

Fight

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Fuck Lindelof, but this is reaching.

Anyone that would take the time to Tweet Lindelof 3 years later, about a project he was not associated with in any way, is far more sad and pathetic than Damon in the first place. Frankly, they are in some way acknowledging that Lost and Breaking Bad are in some way on the same level, which is completely delusional.

Tyen = Lindelof, am I right?
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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linedlof and cruse are responsible for the shit last season of Lost. though they need to get on his case for prometheus as well.
 
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