Breaking the Spirit of a Willful Child...

Srathor · May 16, 2017

Rules don't always make sense to a kid with a limited attention span or the experience to think things through. Finding a way to explain it so that he gets it might be a truly tough challenge. You say he is shy, but now is acting out and doesn't know when to stop. He is putting on a mask to protect himself, but he doesn't know why he is doing it, or how to take it off.

You can't just tell him, you have to show him. The little fuckers are smart, but they ape quite a lot of what they see done until it becomes a habit. And they are always watching and listening, always.

I will bet you anything he is jealous of his sister and pushes her either physically or emotionally a lot to get attention, because even negative attention is better than no attention.

Give him some attention, the yardwork idea is a good one, but do it with him, show him what to do and not to do, teach him about tools and why things are the way they are. Why the playtime rules are the way they are. Use examples of the kids he talks about, because those are the ones he admires, or fears. Hell if he has gaming knowledge make him achievement badges (that he helps make to give them value) and hang on a board.

Don't break his willful spirit, guide it, make it grow. And if that doesn't work, gets some boxing gloves and beat his ass a few times past when he wants to stop and use that as an example. Horrible idea I know, but it worked for me. Of course it was my Mom that threw me around under the guise of teaching me to fight. (Dad was out of town) But I never came home again complaining about people harassing me.

iannis · May 16, 2017

Soygen said:
2nd children are the worst, I hear. I was a 2nd child and my mom seems to agree with that theory. Good luck!

Can confirm. My little brother is awful. Just fucking awful.

Nah. He's ok. Still though, just the worst.

hodj · May 16, 2017

Never attempt to break a willful child's spirit.

You're destroying them to remake them in the image you want them to be in.

It can only end in disaster.

Trust in your children. If they fail at adulthood, that's on them, not you.

Xarpolis · May 17, 2017

Shonuff said:
So child #2 continues to be the direct opposite of #1. #1 gets straight A's (OK, a B in math) and has never had a disciplinary problem in her life. The boy, while he gets good scores in first grade, is showing a capacity to not listen to his teachers. I've been called into the Principal's office on this one. He doesn't like to be corrected, even when learning something new. He had a substitute teacher come in, and he didn't like her correcting him, so he refused to do his work. I go to the Principal's office, and he's ignoring the Principal.

I'm at my wit's end. I took away his video games last time for two weeks. He hated that. He's on punishment again. I got an email from the teacher stating that he's doing his work, but when his friends start cutting up in class, he cuts up with them.

I don't want him to grow up to be a loser. Maybe we are being too soft on him because he's the baby? I'm further concerned because he'll inherit a great deal of assets, and the last thing the world needs is another spoiled rich kid.

I need to nip this in the bud now, but don't know how. Nobody gave me an owner's manual with this thing.

What you're describing is exactly what I did to my parents growing up. Have you had them give him an IQ test yet? He might be really smart and is bored to death with everything that he does, so he acts out. And being that things naturally come easy, he never has to really try to get the answer. As a result, anything that actually REQUIRES him to try, is quickly given up on.

I'm 100% guilty of that, and I wish I wasn't. I really wish I didn't give up so easily when I was young. I've learned the lesson now that I'm older, but I believe the damage has already been done.

Springbok · May 17, 2017

Kinda sounds like me as a child, about that time I started to box and a lot of that disappeared eventually. Physical combat sports in a controlled environment never hurt anyone.

Zapatta · May 17, 2017

Springbok said:
Kinda sounds like me as a child, about that time I started to box and a lot of that disappeared eventually. Physical combat sports in a controlled environment never hurt anyone.

I was gonna say Judo or Tae Kwon Do. Something to put energy into that has very strict code of conduct and a fear of an ass kicking. It worked for me as a child.

Harkon · May 17, 2017

Let you son experience the world, take him places and expand his horizons. Go do stuff that is not in the regular routine and put him to work. There is alot of good stuff in this thread already so I think you will be ok.

Shonuff · May 17, 2017

hodj said:
Never attempt to break a willful child's spirit.

You're destroying them to remake them in the image you want them to be in.

It can only end in disaster.

Trust in your children. If they fail at adulthood, that's on them, not you.

Worst advice ever. The last thing that we need in this world is another Black teen that is disrespectful to authority. Traffic stops are already bad enough! When he's sitting there in the Principal's office covering his ears and ignoring her, that has me beyond concerned.

And I've already said it, I'm not going to raise any fucking losers. I'd be worried that if/when he wants to work in the business, that he would abuse employees. I'm not just talking about respect for authority, but respecting those who you are over. It goes both ways.

Soygen · May 17, 2017

I agree with hodj's first point about not "breaking his spirit". However, I disagree 100% in "Trust in your children." Children are idiots and need guidance and parenting at all levels at that age. You have to find out why he's acting out, while trying to harness that energy into productive things.

Shonuff · May 17, 2017

Xarpolis said:
What you're describing is exactly what I did to my parents growing up. Have you had them give him an IQ test yet?

We haven't done it for him, but his sister registered in the top 5%. And yeah, she gets bored, but she's in the #1 school in the state right now.

Shonuff · May 17, 2017

Soygen said:
I agree with hodj's first point about not "breaking his spirit". However, I disagree 100% in "Trust in your children." Children are idiots and need guidance and parenting at all levels at that age. You have to find out why he's acting out, while trying to harness that energy into productive things.

I want to harness his spirit, and break him at the same time. Make sense? The world is already tough enough, I want tough kids. However, I don't want a kid who is going to be smarting off to cops, etc.

Shonuff · May 17, 2017

Cutlery said:
Manual labor seems to solve behavioral problems quicker than anything else around my house. My oldest even tells my youngest "you might wanna start listening to dad, or you're gonna be pulling weeds all day."

Yeah, you can take away privileges and stuff, but that never seemed to fully rectify the problem, they just find other things to do to wait out their sentence. But a day getting up at 7 and heading out in the sun doing menial yard work while all the kids are out in the neighborhood playing? That's where the attitude seems to shift pretty quickly. Pull weeds, stack firewood, trim trees, rake leaves, pick up the black walnuts, shovel snow, move landscaping rock, turn over the flower beds, whatever. I guarantee you there's work available outside the house, so find something for him to do and I'm willing to bet he'll remember it.

Plus, if he doesn't, you're just training him for his eventual career anyway!

I will try that.

chaos · May 17, 2017

Shonuff said:
Worst advice ever. The last thing that we need in this world is another Black teen that is disrespectful to authority. Traffic stops are already bad enough! When he's sitting there in the Principal's office covering his ears and ignoring her, that has me beyond concerned.

And I've already said it, I'm not going to raise any fucking losers. I'd be worried that if/when he wants to work in the business, that he would abuse employees. I'm not just talking about respect for authority, but respecting those who you are over. It goes both ways.

It's important to take it seriously, but there's a line you can cross where you are overreacting. He's only 6, it's a little early to be evaluating his management style.

Soygen · May 17, 2017

chaos said:
It's important to take it seriously, but there's a line you can cross where you are overreacting. He's only 6, it's a little early to be evaluating his management style.

Maybe Sho is Jamaican.

kegkilla · May 17, 2017

This thread makes a lot more sense if you read the posts about Lyrical joining a karate cult where they made him do roundhouse kicks in 120 degree temperatures with no AC.

kegkilla · May 17, 2017

Lanx said:
Put a GPS tag on him, drive him out to the woods stop on the side of the road and just look straight ahead and say

"Get Out"

don't look at him

don't answer him

"Get Out"

When he finally does, peel loose like Vin disel, don't look in the mirror, cuz you'll probably loose your nerve and stop, just keep going.

Once he stops crying, and starts to wander around in the woods, you can pick him up.

Don't tell him the reason, he'll figure it out.

Ok Piccolo

Sterling · May 17, 2017

Have you considered selling him to a band of gypsies?

hodj · May 17, 2017

Shonuff said:
Worst advice ever. The last thing that we need in this world is another Black teen that is disrespectful to authority. Traffic stops are already bad enough! When he's sitting there in the Principal's office covering his ears and ignoring her, that has me beyond concerned.

And I've already said it, I'm not going to raise any fucking losers. I'd be worried that if/when he wants to work in the business, that he would abuse employees. I'm not just talking about respect for authority, but respecting those who you are over. It goes both ways.

My 400 pound mother sat on my chest and beat me daily to make me "Respect authority" from the age of 8 to the age of 14 when I got big enough to kick her ass.

Didn't work out very well for her.

Won't work out well for you either.

Respect and fear are different things.

Fear is the mind killer. Your fear is killing your mind.

Meanwhile I've got two kids, 13 and 16, who are functioning members of society who don't battle my authority constantly because I taught them that respect is a two way street, and that authority isn't something to rebel against, but something to work in unity with.

Your mindset is that of a tyrant. You'll get what all tyrants get in the end as a result: The noose after a rebellion.

BrutulTM · May 17, 2017

It would be nice if you could force your kids to turn out the way you want them to, but you really can't. Parenting is important, but I've known too many people who are drastically different than their siblings despite getting the same raising to think that it's the answer to everything. You can say "I'm not raising any losers" but when you get down to it, it's not really up to you. The fact that you're there and you care puts him ahead of a lot of kids, and he is probably going to turn out fine, but all you're going to do by trying to force him to be who you want him to be is make him resent you.

Seeing him covering his ears in the principal's office and extrapolating that out into a vision of him dying in a hail of police bullets at 17 is a very parental way of thinking, but as Chaos said, he is only 6. He's being raised in a house where that shit is not acceptable, and being given everything he needs, so there's no reason to think that he won't come out of it, and even if he doesn't, it probably won't be because you didn't do some magical parenting trick to turn him into the kid you imagined him being. I don't know if "trust in your children" is the right way to put it, but I think you do have to have a little faith to be a parent, because you will just ruin his life and yours by trying to control everything. It sounds to me like you are doing a great job with your kids and my money is on them turning out just fine. They will humble you though.

Shonuff · May 17, 2017

chaos said:
It's important to take it seriously, but there's a line you can cross where you are overreacting. He's only 6, it's a little early to be evaluating his management style.

To be honest, it's not. When you are talking about affluent children, most parents will tell you it went sideways with their kids early, and got worse from there. The kid that wouldn't listen to teacher is the same kid that would listen to anyone about drugs, and ended up in and out of rehab.

I know it's kind of a different subject, but not really. The first generation suffers to make the money, the second generation blows most of it, and the third generation tries to bring it back.

I can name families around here where they have so much money, the kid (who is now supposed to be in charge of the business), is sitting at the lake house doing lines all day. Sounds good in theory, but someone has to be minding the store. When these kids haven't had to work for it, they are soft and they don't even know it. I wouldn't trade the time after college, where I barely had rent money for anything. I can remember sitting there staring at the vending machines, wondering how people could afford those 50 cent cans of soda. The pain we feel in the valleys defines us for the rest of our lives.

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