Buying a car?

Frenzied Wombat · Jun 17, 2013

Eyashusa_sl said:
What do you guys think about leasing a car instead of buying?

I've leased all my cars to date and despite its bad rap it certainly appeals to me.

Advantages:

1) You get a new car every 2-4 years
2) You can lease a higher end car than you could buy due to lower monthly payments
3) Car is always under warranty
4) Fixed monthly payments-- no surprises

Disadvantages:
1) You don't own the car so can't make modifications
2) You aren't building any equity
3) Unless you can find someone to buy your lease, you are stuck with the payments until the lease period ends no matter what.
4) Limited to 10,000-15,000 miles per year depending on your lease
5) Math used to calculate payments is a lot more fuzzy and unless you're careful the dealer can screw you

For me, I absolutely HATE dealing with car mechanics, repairs, and unforeseen payments. I hate irregular budgets because of "surprise" repairs, I love new cars and quickly get tired of my current ride, only live 5 miles from work, and like knowing that my "all-in" care costs are EXACTLY X dollars per month. All these factors have made me choose leasing.

Many people claim leasing is a waste of money and that you aren't building equity. This is true to a small extent, however nothing depreciates as fast as a car does, and after all is said and done when your last financing payment is due at the end of year 5, the residual is probably 30% of what you payed new, you've already dumped a year of out of pocket repairs/maintenance into it, and if you really want to drive it into the ground you've probably got 3 years of no payments and out of pocket repairs.

Personally, if you can keep under the mileage and don't mind envisioning an indefinite fixed cost associated with owning a car, go with a lease. If you plan on driving the car until it's dead and really don't care for "new", finance it

Siliconemelons · Jun 17, 2013

Something I also find annoying with lease stuff is, lets say you love your car and want to buy it- the buyout is what the residual is when you first bought the thing and its black and white in stone. Lets say its buyout is 18k but you can look outside the window at their used lot and the off lease/trade ins of the same thing are 15k... sorry yours is 18k. If you did research before you turn the car in you can not give them any indication you want the car and hope they put it on their lot and then try and buy the thing- but many times it will get moved to a satellite or a partner dealership depending on what they have in their used lot...and you then have to wait about 2 or 3 weeks for them to get it off lease and back into their system as a for sale used car... or you could have a good salesmen and he can turn it around quickly and sell it to you in the used side for a fair price etc.

edit: of course there is the flip-side and your residual is less than the current used market and your ahead of the game...

that being said, as stated above- if you are set on having a car payment at X and thats cool for here and forever more- go for it, your in a nice new car almost always etc... but if you have a modern car that is not problematic and you take care of it you can be in years 9-10 before you see a large repair such as transmission replacement etc happen - even one or two years of no car payment is greater in the green than a 2500$ rebuild. In the end of a standard finance and payoff you will over all pay less than the end of a lease and direct buy out- especially if you finance 2-3years for the buyout.

In the end it all is what your situation is, how long you like to keep your car etc... Lease option would not be around if no one used them or there was not market for em...

Gecko_sl · Jun 17, 2013

The price of used cars is just fucking outrageous. Is a 12 year old car with 120k really worth 8k dollars? I can go cheaper and get a Pontiac or Chevy, but heck, what's the chance those will last more than 2 years?

The only thing one can get for under 4k is a beater on life support, it seems.

The Mercedes idea is interesting, but as I'm not a gearhead, I'm not sure if that'd be a good fit for me. I guess I'll bite the bullet and add a few k to find a good Honda, Subaru, or Toyota.

Falstaff · Jun 17, 2013

I'm pretty sure my wife's 10 year old Corolla with some small rust spots around a couple door handles and 120k miles is going to get like 5k as a trade in... at least that's what we were told potentially... so I'm sure someone on the open market or a dealership is going to sell it for 7500 at least.

Siliconemelons · Jun 17, 2013

Wife has a 05 Honda Civic with 16k miles on it- I want to sell the thing so bad for like 10k and buy her a new car for like 14k lol

Co worker has been looking for a car for his wife- and times are very odd in the car market.

You can find a nice 2-3 year old car with like 30-40k miles for lets say 13k or buy a new one of the same damn thing for 14-15k...

Look for complete brand-rebadge or "shared platform" cars that are in the bones a honda/toyota etc but badged GM etc such as the Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota Matrix - you may be able to get one at a better price than its Toyota counterpart yet it is the same damn car.

Frenzied Wombat · Jun 17, 2013

Eyashusa_sl said:
I'm pretty sure my wife's 10 year old Corolla with some small rust spots around a couple door handles and 120k miles is going to get like 5k as a trade in... at least that's what we were told potentially... so I'm sure someone on the open market or a dealership is going to sell it for 7500 at least.

Look up its value in Edmund's or Kelly Blue Book and take 75% of that value and that is what the dealer will probably offer you as trade-in. 5K seems really high considering it's only a Corolla and is 10 years old with 120K miles on it. For instance a 2003 Corolla S model with standard options and 120K miles is listed as being worth $3800 in trade-in assuming "good" condition.

jeydax · Jun 17, 2013

I used this website to compare Trade-in values between Black Book, Blue Book, and NADA:http://www.cudlautosmart.com/Researc...eInValues.aspx

The estimates for my vehicle were about $1,000 high for what I actually got (for my $8000-9000 trade in) but YMMV.

arkktheseaotter_sl · Jun 18, 2013

Any truth to the VW repair cost and reliability issues people have yapped about for years?

Eomer · Jun 18, 2013

I'd say so on reliability, yes. VW has made shit vehicles for over two decades now, reliability wise.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#axzz2WaLtuLz7

The VW brand was fourth from the bottom in this year's J.D. Power Initial Quality Study. Since 1987, VW has teetered toward the bottom, except for 2009, when it was No. 15 of 27. In 2010 it fell to No. 31, of 33.

JD Power and Consumer Reports both regularly rank them near the bottom for reliability.

Cost of repair wise, that I'm less sure about. I think people overstate the differences between different volume manufacturer's repair costs.

Lightning Lord Rule · Jun 18, 2013

I can speak from experience regarding the older mercedes idea.

- If you're trying to keep it simple to work on, don't get anything newer than about 1996. Also, Benz wiring harnesses on most cars are notoriously bad from about 1993-1995 for many models. Wiring harness replacement is quite expensive for a car with lots of electrical things (seats, hvac, etc etc). Avoid these years unless you know it's been done.

-1996 or so is also about when they stopped building their cars with that "over-engineeredness". Mostly starting with the round headlight E-class.

-Cars from the 80s are generally a good bet assuming they've been taken care of reasonably well. Avoid any cars with the 380 designation though, as that engine was poorly designed with mile-long timing chains that can let go after so many miles, which ruins the engine.

-Pretty much all of the benz cars from this era get shitty gas mileage, especially compared to anything from the last 4-5 years. In my old w114 coupe I get about 15mpg no matter what I do.

-These cars are built like tanks, last well past 200k miles if maintained well, and are generally easy to work on. Parts aren't cheap though, but there are aftermarket versions available. They're not sporty at all though, with maybe a couple of rare exceptions (190e 16v, C36AMG, 500eAMG, 1980 500SLC)

-The older ones are becoming classics, especially the 1960s models. w108s are especially cool if you want something that looks classy and is cheap to buy. They may start to appreciate as they become more rare, but maybe not too. w111 coupes and convertibles are already appreciating big time, as are w113 SL's. r107's MIGHT appreciate someday, but probably not for a while, since they made them for like 20 years and there's so many of them out there.

-The best bets out there IMO are: the w108 for something classy/vintage looking, the w123 for something bulletproof, tanklike and anonymous, and the w124 for something slightly more modern with bulletproof/tanklike qualities. w124 coupes can be found as well for something a bit more rare.

Springbok · Jun 18, 2013

So still haven't pulled trigger yet on new car. Was thinking something around $30-$35k max for something fun to drive with a little utility (Already own a 2012 Silverado for hauling shit - but its really un-fun to drive). Had been looking at Muranos/Highlanders etc but wasn't really feelin em' enough to purchase yet. Today I rolled through Lexus/Audi/BMW dealers just to see what they had. Really, really liked 3 cars - Audi A3 & A4, and BMW X1 (thought this was SUV, but its more of a wagon imo). Also liked CT200H Lexus, but it is just so fucking slow, and MPG isn't really a priority.

X1 was by far the most fun to drive, but BMW seems super Wakandanrdly re: features. $32k base, but the ones I liked were all north of $35k ($37-$40). The $32k Lexus had way more tech inside the cabin. Not sure what to do - thoughts? Experiences with any of those particular models?

Luthair · Jun 18, 2013

Soygen_sl said:
The only acceptable German SUV is the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. Your payment may be a bit over 1,200, but you'll know you made the right choice. Your kids don'treallyhave to eat, do they?

Maybe its a regional thing, but there are a ton of Cayenne available used in Ontario Canada. Not sure that its necessarily a good idea either from a maintenance perspective

koljec_sl · Jun 19, 2013

Springbok_sl said:
X1 was by far the most fun to drive, but BMW seems super Wakandanrdly re: features. $32k base, but the ones I liked were all north of $35k ($37-$40). The $32k Lexus had way more tech inside the cabin. Not sure what to do - thoughts? Experiences with any of those particular models?

Back in December, I was looking at the X1 and the Ct200h. Like you, I couldn't find an X1 with the options I wanted, and the dealerships only gave me a vague time table for delivery of a RWD X1 with limited options.

So I went with the ct200h. I love it, but it is slow (I'd actually argue that it's quick from 0-30 -- it has great throttle response, and I believe the battery assists acceleration up to about 20 miles per hour). I need mpg, and I can get a legit 47mpg out of mine. It's the most comfortable cockpit I've ever driven, and it handlesverywell.

The day lexus puts an X1-like engine in the CT is the day it creates the perfect hatchback.

But if you really need speed, I would order the X1 or look into a 2014 IS 350.

Soygen · Jun 19, 2013

Luthair_sl said:
Maybe its a regional thing, but there are a ton of Cayenne available used in Ontario Canada. Not sure that its necessarily a good idea either from a maintenance perspective

I was being sarcastic. The Turbo S is well over $150,000 fully equipped. Ouch.

Springbok · Jun 19, 2013

koljec_sl said:
Back in December, I was looking at the X1 and the Ct200h. Like you, I couldn't find an X1 with the options I wanted, and the dealerships only gave me a vague time table for delivery of a RWD X1 with limited options.

So I went with the ct200h. I love it, but it is slow (I'd actually argue that it's quick from 0-30 -- it has great throttle response, and I believe the battery assists acceleration up to about 20 miles per hour). I need mpg, and I can get a legit 47mpg out of mine. It's the most comfortable cockpit I've ever driven, and it handlesverywell.

The day lexus puts an X1-like engine in the CT is the day it creates the perfect hatchback.

But if you really need speed, I would order the X1 or look into a 2014 IS 350.

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks. They've got a few base x1 w/ premium packages, etc at $36-$38k. Thinking about rolling over this morning to get the white one, but we'll see. I also would LOVE the new IS350's (I really like new body styles, and they aren't any more than x1 is), but I don't know release date and want to do something now. Have a bunch of road trips planned this summer and don't want to drive the truck. CT's are terrific looking - if you threw that 2.0 Turbo x1 in it its a no brainer for me, as Lexus is miles ahead of BMW w/ their tech/basic options.

Eomer · Jun 19, 2013

Yeah, base level BMW's have terrible options/features. They do it to be able to compete/advertise on price, I guess, and then bend you over when you actually order one.

Siliconemelons · Jun 19, 2013

Lightning Lord Rule_sl said:
I can speak from experience regarding the older mercedes idea.

-The older ones are becoming classics, especially the 1960s models. w108s are especially cool if you want something that looks classy and is cheap to buy. They may start to appreciate as they become more rare, but maybe not too. w111 coupes and convertibles are already appreciating big time, as are w113 SL's. r107's MIGHT appreciate someday, but probably not for a while, since they made them for like 20 years and there's so many of them out there.
.

A co worker of mine knew my 380sl (r107) I was trying to sell because my wife hated it... his wife has a 89 4 door that he was getting some work done on it, rebuilt the AC completely- dash off etc etc once it was done his wife told him he could buy mine- as he talked about it with her and his mechanic- his mechanic who is an old benz guy etc etc stated that the 107's are starting to enter the phase of being truly considered a classic- but like you said, that thing was made from like 1970 to 1989 or so... but finding them that are decent solid bones at a decent price is hard.

Things I bought for my 380 while I was messing with it- Fuel Pump - 15$ on ebay shipped. Alternator boshe rebuilt 40$ on ebay, front and rear speakers that got decent reviews for their cost- 35$ on ebay. New window switches up/down 12$ ebay... all of it was fairly easy and was done with pops on a weekend or by myself. I redid the interior with black wood grain vinyl and replaced the steering wheel with black leather- redid the carpets as black- it was Grey on grey with black soft top- with the softtop up, the side molding - the interior grey on black- it looked very sharp imo.

All that to say, the mechanic was telling him to buy mine and restore it over the next few years- the market for r107s is increasing he feels- and I agree. I could have made a easy few grand if I could have held the car for a few more months...but happy wife ya know... lol

Springbok · Jun 19, 2013

Fuck it, just bought the X1 for $32k - sticker at $39k. White on black. Going to get it deep tinted next week... - drives fantastically, just wish my afternoon wasn't loaded with meetings/appointments as I'd like to actually drive it a bit before vacation.

Soygen · Jun 19, 2013

Eomer_sl said:
Yeah, base level BMW's have terrible options/features. They do it to be able to compete/advertise on price, I guess, and then bend you over when you actually order one.

Yeah, they are the worst with that shit. Base M3 is like 62,000 and you'll almost never find one on a lot under 75,000, many easily clearing 80.

koljec_sl · Jun 22, 2013

Springbok_sl said:
Fuck it, just bought the X1 for $32k - sticker at $39k. White on black. Going to get it deep tinted next week... - drives fantastically, just wish my afternoon wasn't loaded with meetings/appointments as I'd like to actually drive it a bit before vacation.

Nice and congrats! You made a good choice, I think. That X1 engine is hard to beat.

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