California trying GPS-tracking mileage tax for 2016

I am going to assume that rural farmers and shippers are going to get some kind of exemption to this? Sounds like it would end up hurting poor people more if not.

BoldW_sl said:

I am going to assume that rural farmers and shippers are going to get some kind of exemption to this? Sounds like it would end up hurting poor people more if not.

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I wouldn't be surprised if agricultural and shipping companies are lobbying hard for an exclusion...and they'll probably get it.

AladainAF_sl said:

You think they will lower the price of gas? If I were a oil company I'd love this too, as I'd be planning on adjusting the price of gas so there is no difference in what you pay at the pump. There a completely different psychology about paying a tax automatically, and actually paying a tax at a later time. Imagine if we gave everyone in this country their full paychecks and then made them pay a $10,000 bill at the end of the year. We'll never do that, because people don't realize how much it actually is until you're writing a check for it.

The price of gas will stay the same -- but you'll just have to pay a tax at a later time as well.

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From the fucking article: "California wants to try charging car owners by the mile instead of having them pay at the pump."

That doesn't say in plain English that they'd remove the state taxes on gas - but it heavily implies it to anyone with any reading comprehension that it's their plan. Whether they follow through on that plan is questionable (and we already know your take being that you think the Tea Party is a good movement...)

Silence_sl said:

Except that shipping companies wouldn't be paying inordinately; they'd be paying their fair share for once. Except, they'd just pass off the cost, anyway.

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True it would be a fair value, but still as someone who uses their services it would be curious to see the price impact.

Internet activity is monitored, our phone calls are recorded as a mater of routine, our children are being issued school ID's with RFID chips and now they want to track our vehicle's movements and have us pay for the privilege of doing so. This isn't merely about taxes it's about power and control and it's getting more blatant and disgusting as the years go on.

Vaclav_sl said:

From the fucking article: "California wants to try charging car owners by the mile instead of having them pay at the pump."

That doesn't say in plain English that they'd remove the state taxes on gas - but it heavily implies it to anyone with any reading comprehension that it's their plan. Whether they follow through on that plan is questionable (and we already know your take being that you think the Tea Party is a good movement...)

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This would be a really good deal for private parties if the states removed the gas tax and went to VMT.

Vaclav_sl said:

From the fucking article: "California wants to try charging car owners by the mile instead of having them pay at the pump."

That doesn't say in plain English that they'd remove the state taxes on gas - but it heavily implies it to anyone with any reading comprehension that it's their plan. Whether they follow through on that plan is questionable (and we already know your take being that you think the Tea Party is a good movement...)

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Hey numbnuts. Fuck you for making me defend Aladain. YOU are the one who needs reading comprehension. Shall I spell out what he's saying, or would you like to give it another go?

Silence_sl said:

This would be a really good deal for private parties if the states removed the gas tax and went to VMT.

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I'm pretty sure they'd make it break even for the average driver to make more total revenue in the end. But for people under the average (or far under the average like myself) it would be amazing.

But for whatever people that end up around the average (I'd guess 400-600 miles?), I bet they'd factor it out to be about equal - maybe even slightly worse to pushback from the recent "losses to efficiency" they quote as inspiration.

All I'm seeing is that California wants to track every vehicle in their state at all times and have their citizens pay for the privilege.

OneofOne_sl said:

Hey numbnuts. Fuck you for making me defend Aladain. YOU are the one who needs reading comprehension. Shall I spell out what he's saying, or would you like to give it another go?

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I guess if you read it in the most abstract way possible you could take it that way - but it's an intentionally abstract way of saying it that can also be taken as you'll get hit "Before and After".

Perhaps I am having a slight reading comp issue, I do have some weaknesses in grammar at times - but if he was trying to say what you are implying, it would've been 100 times clearer to just say "The same total cost at the end of the day" not "You'll be paying the same for gas" (factually incorrect) and then be playing catchup on it later.

Paying for it 1-12 months later gives people a window to invest or otherwise accrue interest on things, so even if it was equal at the end of the day, that's actually still of greater value to the consumer anyhow.

Twice you allude to me "implying" what he's saying. All I said was, you don't understand what he's saying. Either you misquoted, or you're just dense.

Anyways, he's not saying we'll pay the tax twice, he's saying even if the gas tax is dropped completely, the people selling gas will raise their prices to total current levels so filling up your tank costs the same. And you'll still pay the new tax. Like what happened when that one airline tax went away temporarily - the airlines jacked their prices to continue charging the same price, and pocketing that much more.

Silence_sl said:

This would be a really good deal for private parties if the states removed the gas tax and went to VMT.

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Actually, the break even point is 24 MPG ($3.55/gal pump cost). Anything more than that, and people will start losing money with a VMT/no per Gallon tax.

Just wait till the GPS gets implemented then they decide to ticket people for speeding through it, we see here you were going 45 in a 30, here's the fine.

I'm kind of all for it though, maybe people will finally quit living in suburbs and driving their cars unnecessarily. Will help out on our obesity epidemic too so my health care can be affordable.

Well then I did read it the right way - so fuck you - and gas stations have never operated that way, nor have gas refineries.

They've both been happy constantly reaping 4c a gallon or so each on both sides of the equation - the same even goes in Europe where taxes on gas are ridiculous. Additionally you see the same thing every year where demand for gas goes up so the price goes up in the Summer, then it retracts in the Fall back down to normal levels again.

Oil companies historically speaking aren't terribly greedy, they know they can make money hand over fist with a small profit per gallon because they'll sell every single drop besides a little loss to evaporation that they produce. If there was precedent of the industry doing it, there might be reason to think so - but to date the oil industry has a precedent of doing the opposite as you see with price declines being a regular thing. (as are temporary raises)

Unless the thought is that the beginning of the chain is going to start charging more - but that would result in a worldwide cost increase even in heavily taxed areas - so seems like they'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

And it's not like it's not a monopolized industry where one company can cause that effect, you'd have to have multiple companies in collusion for it to happen on the front end - and incredible numbers of franchised gas stations on the back end.

"Prices never go back down" is a general rule of thumb - but not law - gas is a case where it's been demonstrated to go down regularly. [Most products with seasonal supply or demand issues are similarly consistently adjusting]

I'd like to see how they make sure the GPS coordinates are not being used for any other purpose. Also, what keeps savvy and rich people from just registering out of state and skipping the tax altogether?

BoldW_sl said:

Also, what keeps savvy and rich people from just registering out of state and skipping the tax altogether?

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California has a really good handle on auto tax dodgers, so it won't work there.

Vaclav_sl said:

Well then I did read it the right way - so fuck you - and gas stations have never operated that way, nor have gas refineries.

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Oh so your response was an intentional non sequitur? Figures.

Oil companies historically speaking aren't terribly greedy,

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Wait what? Oh nm, no need to continue this discussion with someone of this opinion.