Camelot Unchained

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Secrets

ResetEra Staff Member
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Grim1 said:
Interesting read. So it sounds like they are using some of the investor money from Colossus for CU. Hopefully it all works out. I'll play Colossus (get it free anyway) but really only care about CU.

Question for those who understand the server tech. Mark mentioned moving from Windows based servers to Linux. What is the benefit of that?
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Windows is notoriously bad for game servers. GCC vs MSVC is not even a fair comparison; linux-based servers blow Microsoft's compiler out of the water. Windows has very flimsy netcode in the form of Windows Sockets - which often are rife with compatibility issues and weird edge case scenarios where other Microsoft components (Windows Update, Firewall, Defender, among others) break functionality out of the blue.

Most games that are made now a days are made with consoles/mobile in mind, if not immediately, then down the road. So most are going to use a cross-platform engine like Unity or Unreal because PS4/Switch/iOS/Android/OSX uses the clang compiler, and Xbox has its own toolchain that is mostly similar to the old Games for Windows Live framework.

So not only is the server going to run faster, but it will be easier to diagnose issues that arise. (tools like Valgrind are horribly absent from Windows and are left to third party app developers)

The benefits of using MSVC is that you have a nice GUI to debug your issues with. I wouldn't be all surprised if they use Windows based servers internally and for production use Linux. We do that with our Unreal 4 servers at work.
 
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Denaut

Denaut

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Secrets said:
Windows is notoriously bad for game servers. GCC vs MSVC is not even a fair comparison; linux-based servers blow Microsoft's compiler out of the water. Windows has very flimsy netcode in the form of Windows Sockets - which often are rife with compatibility issues and weird edge case scenarios where other Microsoft components (Windows Update, Firewall, Defender, among others) break functionality out of the blue.

Most games that are made now a days are made with consoles/mobile in mind, if not immediately, then down the road. So most are going to use a cross-platform engine like Unity or Unreal because PS4/Switch/iOS/Android/OSX uses the clang compiler, and Xbox has its own toolchain that is mostly similar to the old Games for Windows Live framework.

So not only is the server going to run faster, but it will be easier to diagnose issues that arise. (tools like Valgrind are horribly absent from Windows and are left to third party app developers)

The benefits of using MSVC is that you have a nice GUI to debug your issues with. I wouldn't be all surprised if they use Windows based servers internally and for production use Linux. We do that with our Unreal 4 servers at work.
Click to expand...

The "best" (that is fastest and most reliable) game servers don't go anywhere windows. They are written in a functional language (like Erlang), run on apache, use a document database (i.e. JSON, BSON), and are totally client independent.

There are downsides to that approach, such as programmers not being fungible between client and server, but I've never seen anything come even close to the performance and reliability of such a set up.
 
Tmac

Tmac

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That's quite a pivot. Good for them I guess, but also confirms why Kickstarter funds vaporware nine times out of ten.
 
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Mahes

Mahes

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I got my refund late last year for Camelot. It took just over 3 months but I got my money back. I am kind of glad I did now. I figured this game would just take way to long to come out, if ever.
 
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Secrets

ResetEra Staff Member
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Denaut said:
The "best" (that is fastest and most reliable) game servers don't go anywhere windows. They are written in a functional language (like Erlang), run on apache, use a document database (i.e. JSON, BSON), and are totally client independent.

There are downsides to that approach, such as programmers not being fungible between client and server, but I've never seen anything come even close to the performance and reliability of such a set up.
Click to expand...

Maybe for mobile games and for SaaS backends (ie; Microsoft's Playfab). But actual game servers generally aren't written in anything other than C/C++ or C# for game logic. Rarely you'll see something written in Go, Python, even Perl etc, but they aren't really seen that often outside of utility scripts.

For example the company I work for has a backend service written in C#, the Unreal 3 'server' that offloads game logic from the clients is C++, and the tools are written in Ruby. It also uses a ejabberd chat service, but that's about the extent of erlang i've seen. And this isn't a small indie project, it's a AAA game from 2010.
 
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Vepil

Vepil

Gamja
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A new 90 day plan according to Jacobs in the comments lol




And people aren't getting those refunds now either due to "virus".


"I am on day 150 of waiting for my refund. The excuse for them being delayed was that MJ has to process refunds in the office and he can't go in the office because of the virus. In his stream on Friday he accidentally let slip that he had been in the office a few weeks ago but did not do any refunds while there despite them being extremely overdue already at that point. So he can and has gone into the office, but he can't do so to honor the refunds he owes and that "logic" is truly dizzying. MJ says that refunds will be honored but so far all people who have asked for a refund have gotten is words. Empty, misleading, hollow words."
 
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Shmoopy

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Secrets said:
Maybe for mobile games and for SaaS backends (ie; Microsoft's Playfab). But actual game servers generally aren't written in anything other than C/C++ or C# for game logic. Rarely you'll see something written in Go, Python, even Perl etc, but they aren't really seen that often outside of utility scripts.

For example the company I work for has a backend service written in C#, the Unreal 3 'server' that offloads game logic from the clients is C++, and the tools are written in Ruby. It also uses a ejabberd chat service, but that's about the extent of erlang i've seen. And this isn't a small indie project, it's a AAA game from 2010.
Click to expand...

One exception is Eve Online that uses an interesting Python variant.

github.com

Home

The Stackless Python programming language. Contribute to stackless-dev/stackless development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com github.com
 
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Secrets

ResetEra Staff Member
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Shmoopy said:
One exception is Eve Online that uses an interesting Python variant.

github.com

Home

The Stackless Python programming language. Contribute to stackless-dev/stackless development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com github.com
Click to expand...

Which is still fundamentally C99 under the hood :p
 
Mahes

Mahes

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Vepil said:
A new 90 day plan according to Jacobs in the comments lol




And people aren't getting those refunds now either due to "virus".


"I am on day 150 of waiting for my refund. The excuse for them being delayed was that MJ has to process refunds in the office and he can't go in the office because of the virus. In his stream on Friday he accidentally let slip that he had been in the office a few weeks ago but did not do any refunds while there despite them being extremely overdue already at that point. So he can and has gone into the office, but he can't do so to honor the refunds he owes and that "logic" is truly dizzying. MJ says that refunds will be honored but so far all people who have asked for a refund have gotten is words. Empty, misleading, hollow words."
Click to expand...



I got lucky and was probably one of the last people to see a refund. I really wanted the game to be a success as I enjoyed DAoC. Ashes of Creation looks to be the next game that comes close to that feeling of Mass PvP. AoC has a much better chance of release. I hope you can get a refund but something tells me that it just will not be possible at this stage.
 
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Vepil

Vepil

Gamja
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I wanted it to be successful but had serious doubts after being in Alpha of Warhammer and seeing how Jacobs drove it in the ground by release with stupid decision after stupid decision. AoC sounds great and is looking pretty good so far, really hope they can pull it off.
 
Animosity

Animosity

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Vepil said:
I wanted it to be successful but had serious doubts after being in Alpha of Warhammer and seeing how Jacobs drove it in the ground by release with stupid decision after stupid decision. AoC sounds great and is looking pretty good so far, really hope they can pull it off.
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Man even with all those bugs I still loved Warhammer. But it definitely gave me a lot of reason to believe CU will never happen.
 
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Lunis

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I really liked the public quest system in Warhammer, i'm surprised no one has ripped it off yet. I remember GW2 did something kinda similar but it was dogshit.
 
Tearofsoul

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Lunis said:
I really liked the public quest system in Warhammer, i'm surprised no one has ripped it off yet. I remember GW2 did something kinda similar but it was dogshit.
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RIFT has something very similar. ESO too
 
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Vepil

Vepil

Gamja
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Bugs could be awesome sometimes, my KoBS got invincible bug (normal dmg but auto healed) and I was able to level so many in the guild until the next reset. Logging off didn't even remove the bug for some reason so we would group up and pull complete camps farming was crazy for hours.
 
Flobee

Flobee

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Mick said:
Well that's alot of funding. May they will actually release something now.
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My first reaction is why would anyone fund this? I've played, there is no game there. Then I remember that they pivoted to building their own MMO engine. I suspect the angle is that they may be able to license this out for other games. Still not convinced they'll make a good game... but the engine could have some promise... if I'm being rather optimistic.

The market could for sure support a well tooled MMO engine
 
jayrebb

jayrebb

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Mahes said:
I would also point out that money does not a make a game.
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Jacobs doesn't make a game. Star Citizen is still a playable product.

They had their chance and decided to build an engine to sell years ago.
 
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