Carnival Row

lgarthy · Sep 9, 2019

Finished it-- a phenomenal bit of steampunk. I've seen and read so many stories that incorporate steampunk motifs, but I truly believe Carrnival Row's purpose was to be the ultimate steampunk series. I can't decide whether it is or it isn't, but it tries so hard and achieves so much to that end (but where was the "scientist" character?)

Some of the story-lines dragged and unfortunately, there really was nothing all that special about the main character, Rycrofte. I was expecting him to be the true investigator (of the Sherlock Holmes sort, perhaps), but he just bumbled his way through the plot without any real convictions or heart.

Beautifully filmed with gorgeous costumes. Great dialogue too. I would not mind more productions like this one.

I am not psyched on where they ended. I don't know that I want to spend a second season on the Fae suppression and the Puck uprising.

Thumbs up from me, though.

iannis · Sep 10, 2019

Yeah, i'm not sure either. It could be an entire season of that which they'd lose me halfway through. Or they could get that over with in 1-2 episodes and escape.

They'll probably try to take an entire season of it. If S2 opens with a timeskip "one year later, it's time to get the hell out of dodge" I'd be more than ok with it.

Cybsled · Sep 10, 2019

Based on interviews

There will be a time skip at the start of S2, but it will be on the order of months. Also, the rich Puck dude and that woman will be the B story that gives us a view into what is happening globally in the world

Qhue · Sep 10, 2019

As for 'where was the scientist character?' I feel pretty confident that we will get some sort of scientist in the second season. Either some mechanical genius refugee from the Pact that the Burgh is wanting to butter up for technology secrets or some bio/zooilogical type ALA the opening credits who studies the Fae and whose views can be used (misused?) to justify their lower class status.

Cybsled · Sep 10, 2019

Ya, the Pact did come across as advanced (werewolf serum, dirigible attack craft, hand-cranked gatling guns), so it wouldnt surprise me if we meet some manner of Pact scientist/inventor, although that rich Puck guy had a lightbulb, which makes me wonder where that came from, since he didn't really make it clear if he brought it with him from elsewhere, or if it came from the Burge.

I get the strong feeling S2 it going to lead us towards a WW1 analog, although I hope it is with steampunk armored vehicles and shit lol

velk · Sep 10, 2019

Cybsled said:
Ya, the Pact did come across as advanced (werewolf serum, dirigible attack craft, hand-cranked gatling guns), so it wouldnt surprise me if we meet some manner of Pact scientist/inventor, although that rich Puck guy had a lightbulb, which makes me wonder where that came from, since he didn't really make it clear if he brought it with him from elsewhere, or if it came from the Burge.

He just got there, so presumably he brought it with him. Makes sense for him to be funding an inventor.

Cybsled · Sep 11, 2019

IRL, JP Morgan backed Edison's electric plans (and then subsequently Westinghouse/Tesla's AC current), so it wouldn't surprise me if it ends up being that sort of business relationship. His vision of making electric lights the standard for the city seemed to mirror what Edison wanted to do and initially electric technology were the toys of the rich.

Attog · Sep 11, 2019

lgarthy said:
Finished it-- a phenomenal bit of steampunk. I've seen and read so many stories that incorporate steampunk motifs, but I truly believe Carrnival Row's purpose was to be the ultimate steampunk series. I can't decide whether it is or it isn't, but it tries so hard and achieves so much to that end (but where was the "scientist" character?)

Some of the story-lines dragged and unfortunately, there really was nothing all that special about the main character, Rycrofte. I was expecting him to be the true investigator (of the Sherlock Holmes sort, perhaps), but he just bumbled his way through the plot without any real convictions or heart.

Beautifully filmed with gorgeous costumes. Great dialogue too. I would not mind more productions like this one.

I am not psyched on where they ended. I don't know that I want to spend a second season on the Fae suppression and the Puck uprising.

Thumbs up from me, though.

They had a nicely written, cohesive story for season 1, it had a beginning, middle, and it ended and it was set in a beautiful world against a great backdrop. They left threads open for another season but it will be all backdrop and no story, and is going to most likely be shit. I hope they stop there and call it good.

Khane · Sep 11, 2019

What exactly was the end of the story in season 1? In fact, what was the story at all? Why were the about to be destitute siblings and the puck involved in the story at all? What exactly is The Pact? Why are the Fae so naive and helpless? That story wasn't even close to cohesive. It was all setup with no answers.

iannis · Sep 12, 2019

The main story was a murder mystery on its face but in actuality the story of a man coming to accept himself, and they had .. how many side stories? A bunch if you wanted to count them. At least 6 or 7. Maybe more. It was lots. If there was an actor credited they had at least some sort of side story. The only one that didn't was Momma Sandsnake. All those side stories really didn't service the main story so much as provide context for it.

It was a cohesive story it just wasn't particularly focused. It meandered. Sort of impressionistic. The actual main plot could have been done very quickly. And man that would have been boring.

You're not wrong it is an awful lot of setup. I mean he caught unseelie jack in... episode 2? The plot of the pilot was basically concluded in the next episode. lol.

Qhue · Sep 12, 2019

I figured the whole reason for Unseelie Jack in the first place was so they could communicate to the audience -- "yeah you think we're doing Jack the Ripper given the setting, but we arent and here's proof -- we just did it!"

Oblio · Sep 14, 2019

I rather enjoyed this, so I find all the complaints about pacing and story telling amusing. I did not binge watch this in 48 hours like many here did. I just finished it last night and watch the first episode the day it was released, so what is that? 2 weeks? I am guessing the bingeing(sp) is the crux of the issue.

I don't want to know everything about the world and the backstory in 8 episodes, that would really feel like they shoe horned everything in. I like that we don't know who exactly the Pact are, I like that we don't know where the Puck and the girl that should have played Khaleesi are going. I like that we don't know why the Fae lack the ability to defend themselves. I think of one of the best WTF moments from childhood, "I am your father!" How much less of an impact would have had if they spelled it out for you in Episode IV?

My only minor minor complaint was that I figured out (or at least had a a strong hunch) that once they revealed the Mom was behind the kidnapping I assumed she was also behind the Liver Killings. It was really confirmed when she met with the witch bitch and really double confirmed when I thought about Philo having the witch make the Darkasher.I felt they made that a little heavy handed the way they developed the Mom's character, that said I didn't see the Brother Sister thing coming maybe it was TOO obvious lol. Funny how you can miss some shit like that. Anyway, I like it and I look forward to season two, hopefully we get to see more of the world and more backstory in small doses.

Qhue · Sep 14, 2019

Ahh crap! I knew I recognized her from somewhere and did not realize that it was the same actress who had played her in the mysterious-yet-rumored-to-be-just-awful GoT pilot.

Oblio · Sep 14, 2019

Qhue said:
Ahh crap! I knew I recognized her from somewhere and did not realize that it was the same actress who had played her in the mysterious-yet-rumored-to-be-just-awful GoT pilot.

I first saw her on the The Tudors in 2009 where she played Catherine Howard and around that time I had heard/read she was cast to play Khaleesi. I thought she had the perfect look from her description in the books, young looking, very petite (scrawny) and pale skinned. I think Dany was early teens when we first meet her in the books. I think there are some laws about portraying underage people and sex, so they made her old in the show? I dunno I could be wrong? Anyway, to me she is a way better actor than Emilia and looks more like Dany. You be the judge, here is a pic of her from 2008 filming for Tudors.

Qhue · Sep 14, 2019

I could definitely see her in the role. Lord knows the eyebrows drove me crazy in GoT

iannis · Sep 14, 2019

I found them amusing. They gave her the giant blonde wig, but didn't do shit about dem giant brown eyebrows.

Going for the mexican girl demographic I guess.

That girl up there is actually blonde. Don't need to check down bottom.

LachiusTZ · Sep 15, 2019

Finished this last night.

SJW as fuck. Change my mind.

iannis · Sep 15, 2019

Nah, sjws have gone far far past this sort of class struggle story. If this was sjw faeries would be intersexed and the struggle wouldn't be along racial line, it would be along sexual identities.

I know what you mean, but sjw doesn't really apply. They may like marx, and the carnival world may be the dystopia he was talking about, but sexual identity is more core to sjws than racial or class identity.

To credit sjws with the ideas in carnival is to give them more credit than they deserve. The ideas in this show are much older than that. It's got a vibe, but not that one. Class struggle is central to Victorian stories. At its heart this is a Victorian story.

The joke was made, but it is sort of fantasy downton abbey.

Gask · Sep 15, 2019

I just finished watching this over the last two weeks and thought that it was alright but that it lacked the hook to get me really invested. The bones of the story are there but everything else is absent apart from the production values. Bloom and the fairy's backstory was lackluster and failed to make me care about either of them and by the end, to me, they were just Mr. Mopey man and Miss Stabby. Apart from the secret of Bloom's parentage they seemed merely united by their common love of dime novels and tantric sex and it came off as rather shallow. Also Bloom's acting was so wooden and such a downer in this role that I'm surprised they didn't make him a drunk as well.

The biggest characterization flaw however goes to the Chancellor who ended up serving as nothing more than a shallow plot device and whose death elicited no pity or regret from me. This is a problem given the direction the show is going; his death should have elicited a sense of loss on several levels as his death will be used as a pretext for the very dark things to come. Even while he was alive we weren't given much to go on as far as his role in keeping things from going full death camp mode are concerned but now here we are I suppose.

As for it being SJW; it was in the sense that there isn't a single, straight, white, human male in the entire story who isn't racist or a weakling. That and all of the dynamic characters who've made things happen in the plot so far have been female apart from the Jihadi analogue. As such the subversion of the "save the princess" trope wasn't much of a surprise in the end but it still got an eye roll from me when Bloom had to be saved from the Darkasher despite knowing that it couldn't be killed in the way that he did it.

I'll watch season two at some point but I feel no rush to do so.

iannis · Sep 15, 2019

You don't understand how good the sex IS though.

Princess plain needed that goat!

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