Chernobyl

Locnar · May 16, 2019

Springbok said:
It's really a great show, shame it's so short. Production values are terrific and the cast is well placed - definitely a better show than GOT, by a distance.

how dare you

meStevo · May 16, 2019

ver_21 said:
You are talking about Ulana, the Belarussian scientist? From what I can wiki, it seems the full tanks part was true, but was the potential size of the explosion exaggerated for drama?

She claims 2-4 megatons, 30km blast radius, explosion of the remaining 3 reactors, causing a secondary blast radius of 200km, killing everyone in kiev and some of minsk, radiation impacting ukraine, latvia, lithuania, belarussia, poland, czech, hungary, romania, east germany...ruin for 100 years, 60 million people...

is this exaggerated for drama? If not, I gotta say that, even though they might be blamed for the problem, the USSR certainly saved the day, too.

My impression from a post prior than what you responded to is it wasn't these facts that were exaggerated, but instead her role is / she's a fabrication. She's being used to basically represent the efforts to recognize and correct the situation as best they can.

Lithose · May 17, 2019

ver_21 said:
You are talking about Ulana, the Belarussian scientist? From what I can wiki, it seems the full tanks part was true, but was the potential size of the explosion exaggerated for drama?

She claims 2-4 megatons, 30km blast radius, explosion of the remaining 3 reactors, causing a secondary blast radius of 200km, killing everyone in kiev and some of minsk, radiation impacting ukraine, latvia, lithuania, belarussia, poland, czech, hungary, romania, east germany...ruin for 100 years, 60 million people...

is this exaggerated for drama? If not, I gotta say that, even though they might be blamed for the problem, the USSR certainly saved the day, too.

Ulana was not a real person during it. Most of the characters so far have been based on specific people. She is based on a small team of guys who got together from other research institutes and realized shit was about to go down, and so forced them beuracrats to listen. The explosion part I'm not sure if the size was exaggerated, but the effect was not. It would have killed millions, because it would have exposed all the reactors--and Soviet Designs were not like American designs. (Because their reactors could also make weapons grade material if needed)

American designs have what's called a negative void coefficient, which means in the absence of water the reactor can not continue producing a chain reaction (Or the number of reactions decreases naturally). However, the reactor is still SUPER hot so it CAN melt through its container if its not cooled (This is what happened at 3 mile and Fukishima) but the actual core will not continue to "fission". (And American designs have secondary containment vessels to contain even the melting of the first. This is why its still safe to work at Three Mile. But as said, even if its not "on fire" it can take a LONG time to cool, the heat is ridiculous)

The Soviets though used a design where their fuel would fission FASTER in the absence of water. They had a positive void coefficient. I don't think they could go critical and actually go off like a nuke (Not sure) because the U235 wasn't rich enough, but the reaction would build and become more and more energetic until it exploded (Not melted, exploded). If those water tanks had exploded, all the cores would have been in this state or ejected straight away.

So yeah, we dodged a big bullet. They weren't tweaking the potential catastrophe that much. The only "fake" thing was they condensed a team of scientists down to one person, and maybe some of the radiation sickness was made to show a little faster for dramatic purposes but that's it from what I can tell, been a while since I've read about it though.

ver_21 · May 17, 2019

Lithose said:
Ulana was not a real person during it. Most of the characters so far have been based on specific people. She is based on a small team of guys who got together from other research institutes and realized shit was about to go down, and so forced them beuracrats to listen. The explosion part I'm not sure if the size was exaggerated, but the effect was not. It would have killed millions, because it would have exposed all the reactors--and Soviet Designs were not like American designs. (Because their reactors could also make weapons grade material if needed)

American designs have what's called a negative void coefficient, which means in the absence of water the reactor can not continue producing a chain reaction (Or the number of reactions decreases naturally). However, the reactor is still SUPER hot so it CAN melt through its container if its not cooled (This is what happened at 3 mile and Fukishima) but the actual core will not continue to "fission" for long it will not "stay on fire". But it will remain hot for long enough to melt shit...however, even if you just walked away, it would level out in a few days. (And American designs have secondary containment vessels to contain even the melting of the first. This is why its still safe to work at Three Mile.)

The Soviets though used a design where their fuel would fission FASTER in the absence of water. They had a positive void coefficient. I don't think they could go critical and actually go off like a nuke (Not sure) because the U235 wasn't rich enough, but the reaction would build and become more and more energetic for a long, long time. This is why even leaving the one core open would have irradiated everything, it was like nukes going off without the critical "boom". If those water tanks had exploded, all the cores would have been in this state, constantly increasing, throwing off multiple Hiroshima's of radiation every hour. The effects would have been catastrophic, potentially millions dead or displaced.

So yeah, we dodged a big bullet. There weren't tweaking the potential catastrophe that much. The only "fake" thing was they condensed a team of scientists down to one person, and maybe some of the radiation sickness was made to show a little faster for dramatic purposes but that's it from what I can tell, been a while since I've read about it though.

much obliged, thank you

Rajaah · May 17, 2019

SorrowsEnd said:
I watched the first two episodes and had the same feeling of dread I got from watching that movie about nuclear fallout in the 80's.

Growing up in PA near 3 mile island we had nuclear evacuation drills in school for years.

This stuff creeps me out.

Threads, or The Day After?

Threads makes TDA look like a cartoon. Most disturbing/depressing movie I've ever seen.

Blazin · May 17, 2019

I live quite close to TMI, looks like it won't be around much longer Reactor 1 going to join it's brother in the trash heap soon

Exelon says again: Three Mile Island is closing in September because Legislature has not acted

kaid · May 17, 2019

dizzie said:
Series is good so far. Makes me feel old - I remember this happening when I was at school. Pretty scary as the soviets didn't tell the west very much initially and there was loads of speculation as to what happened. The very radioactive cloud was noticed over the Scandi's someplace and all the scientists were like wtf as it affected the soil across the whole of Northern Europe.

You really have to feel for the poor human beings that went and cleaned this shit up, you see some real footage in docs from a chopper and there's so much radiation from the plume that the camera's electronics are being fried to pieces and it's fucking up the shots.

The zone of alienation is pretty incredible, it's amazing how durable animals and plants are. Even after they nuked the shit out of the area, there's still species heading in there and doing well.

Its more of an indication no matter how bad the radiation effects are humans are worse for plant and animal life. Long term cancers only matter if you can live long enough for the cancer to form. If enough viable young can be born and live long enough to reproduce thats a win as far as nature is concerned. Weird radiation side effects aboud in that area though such as forests that have decades of leaves and branches that simply can't decay because the radiation has sterilized all the normal things that would decay them.

kaid · May 17, 2019

ver_21 said:
You are talking about Ulana, the Belarussian scientist? From what I can wiki, it seems the full tanks part was true, but was the potential size of the explosion exaggerated for drama?

She claims 2-4 megatons, 30km blast radius, explosion of the remaining 3 reactors, causing a secondary blast radius of 200km, killing everyone in kiev and some of minsk, radiation impacting ukraine, latvia, lithuania, belarussia, poland, czech, hungary, romania, east germany...ruin for 100 years, 60 million people...

is this exaggerated for drama? If not, I gotta say that, even though they might be blamed for the problem, the USSR certainly saved the day, too.

Even if it had not reached peak catastrophe there is no denying a lot of really brave russians died horribly to stop the disaster from becoming worse than it was. There were a lot of fuck ups leading up to the event but when the bill came due they paid it.

brekk · May 17, 2019

kaid said:
Weird radiation side effects aboud in that area though such as forests that have decades of leaves and branches that simply can't decay because the radiation has sterilized all the normal things that would decay them.

That's been the concern for the last 20 years. A forest fire in the exclusion zone would be catastrophic.

dizzie · May 17, 2019

Never even thought about a forest fire, the would be a nightmare.

I know people go to the exclusion zone and visit Pripyat as tourists - aren't there parts that are still able to give you a lethal dose. I read an article years ago about all the fire engines, helicopters and general machinery that was just dumped as it was too radioactive to even go near.

Stalker the game really nailed this place as everything fucked you right up from the get go.

kaid · May 17, 2019

dizzie said:
Never even thought about a forest fire, the would be a nightmare.

I know people go to the exclusion zone and visit Pripyat as tourists - aren't there parts that are still able to give you a lethal dose. I read an article years ago about all the fire engines, helicopters and general machinery that was just dumped as it was too radioactive to even go near.

Stalker the game really nailed this place as everything fucked you right up from the get go.

Generally if you stay on the roads and do NOT go into buildings without a Geiger counter you are probably fine

cabbitcabbit · May 17, 2019

This is damn good. The last scene when the Geiger counter is just going nuts was heavy.

Lithose · May 18, 2019

Btw, a good video for the differences between Russian and American reactors. I thought so, but as he confirms in the video, its not possible for Russian reactors to "go critical" (IE nuclear bomb) because the fuel enrichment was too low in the mass, but it is possible for them to become energetic enough to make the uranium explode in a chemical fashion. So once deprived of water, they will get hotter and the fission will increase in the graphite until it explodes (Not a nuclear explosion). In an American plant, the water disappears the reaction will slow down (It still might melt through the graphite just due to heat, but it won't explode).

kaid · May 19, 2019

Lithose said:
Btw, a good video for the differences between Russian and American reactors. I thought so, but as he confirms in the video, its not possible for Russian reactors to "go critical" (IE nuclear bomb) because the fuel enrichment was too low in the mass, but it is possible for them to become energetic enough to make the uranium explode in a chemical fashion. So once deprived of water, they will get hotter and the fission will increase in the graphite until it explodes (Not a nuclear explosion). In an American plant, the water disappears the reaction will slow down because the water itself is not a mediator (It still might melt through the graphite just due to heat, but it won't explode).

Yup it is not an a bomb explosion but it could have been the mother of all dirty bombs

LiquidDeath · May 20, 2019

Lithose said:
Btw, a good video for the differences between Russian and American reactors. I thought so, but as he confirms in the video, its not possible for Russian reactors to "go critical" (IE nuclear bomb) because the fuel enrichment was too low in the mass, but it is possible for them to become energetic enough to make the uranium explode in a chemical fashion. So once deprived of water, they will get hotter and the fission will increase in the graphite until it explodes (Not a nuclear explosion). In an American plant, the water disappears the reaction will slow down because the water itself is not a mediator (It still might melt through the graphite just due to heat, but it won't explode).

Just an FYI for people interested. That same professor has lots of youtube videos from his Physics class and they are fantastic. Why pay for the ludicrous tuition of college when the best learning is free? His lecture on nuclear energy (the same one this snippet is from) is awesome. I suggest you watch it if you are int interested in the subject.

Soygen · May 20, 2019

The tension in the first two episodes is amazing. Great show so far. I thought this was just a 2 part mini-series, but forgot that HBO shows shit weekly. Looking forward to the rest. How many episodes in total is this going to be? Netflix has spoiled me with the "all episodes available at once" thing.

Downhammer · May 20, 2019

5 episodes. It will be interesting to see how they transition from what has been a suspense thriller into a political thriller. The casting has been great and from what I've read over the last two weeks it is a pretty spot on recreation of events.

Couchy · May 20, 2019

Araxen said:

This podcast is a really good addition to the show. The creator talks about all the research they did, and why they made certain changes. Sounds like they really tried to make it as authentic as possible.

Cant wait for tonight's episode

Arrion · May 20, 2019

kaid said:
Generally if you stay on the roads and do NOT go into buildings without a Geiger counter you are probably fine

I've actually been there as a tourist. It's quite safe. The only time the dosimeter started recording significant radiation and and throwing an alarm was while we were driving on the perimeter road on the downwind side of the reactor, basically next to the red forest. True to the guides' word, the total dose we received was about 1/10th the dose you get on a transatlantic flight. Being in an airplane at 35000 feet is more radiation exposure.

The real danger is getting contaminated particles on your clothes or skin. As long as you don't try to collect souvenirs or go around kicking up dust you'll be fine.

Needless · May 20, 2019

This show is insane

Chernobyl

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