Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey

Iannis_sl said:

I didn't love the cartoon Newton/Halley exchanges, but I really like that they didn't gloss over Newton's less fruitful pursuits.

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I thought the animations were excellent. Loving history, the history of science from the new breed of science-advocates is great. Newton and Halley were badasses, and I agree that it didn't skim over the crazy of Newton or try to make him out to be a demi-god of science. The guy was a mathematical genius, no doubt, but didn't have near the drive as Halley.

I liked that their cartoons were pretty good representations of what they actually looked like, too. Halley downing a glass of wine in contentment (whether true or not) before his last breath and Newton burning Hooke's portrait were great moments showing the humanity of these great discoverers.

But even if they don't, it's still a better show than all those "sciency" programs that run on cable. "GALACTIC EXPLOSIONS! SECRETS OF THE BLACK HOLE! THE PYRAMID MYSTERY! LOOK, PRETTY PICTURES AND DUMB SHIT!"

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You mean "ALIENS! ALIENS! ALIENS!"

So far, this show should be shown in every highschool science class.

I've been watching it with my roommate who is a complete religious nut job. Obviously, he isn't too bright and has not been exposed to most of this. He's completely hooked and fascinated by the show, and it hasn't hit him that it's basically disproving his religious beliefs one episode at a time. I'm not even going to say anything until the series is over, because I don't want to ruin that revelation for either of us. Living in the south, I feel like it's my mission to show this to as many people as possible for the good of humanity.

Honestly I would just encourage him to learn more and let him figure it out if he is digging it. If you confront him aggressively, he will get defensive and turtle back to ignorance land.

Leave "science treats" lying around thst might interest him if he happens across it, like easy to digest articles or magazines. If he is curious, he will read them and you will have passively directed him towards more self-directed learning. Maybe he will even
ask you for more stuff.

It doesn't have to "disprove" his beliefs, just change how he frames them. Instead of bible literal, maybe he will accept that the laws of nature/physics are god's doing and be more accepting of science as a way to understand god vs. disproving or fighting him. That's perfectly ok, too. If you try to make it a "science or god, pick one" debate, you'll never get anywhere.

If he likes NDT, suggest he readOrigins.Covers a lot of what is in the show so far (with a lot of same examples), but more in-depth.

BoldW_sl said:

If he likes NDT, suggest he readOrigins.Covers a lot of what is in the show so far (with a lot of same examples), but more in-depth.

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He's not going to read shit, it's already explained that this guy is a Southern mouthbreather. Let him get through the series first and then maybe start sending some online links with neat pictures.

I finally got around to watching the last episode. Really enjoyed the history lesson and how they presented it. Wasn't aware of all the Newton / Hooke drama and really enjoyed that part.

I have mixed feelings about the "religion is stupid" undertones. On the one hand, they're doing a great job of driving the point home that science has answered some of these questions definitively and that mysticism can only harm. On the other hand, addressing them so specifically (even if somewhat subtly) also somewhat legitimizes them. It makes it seem like an alternative viewpoint they can consider, rather than "this is the way, and everyone who is intelligent agrees." Those who are young and grew up religious but with slightly skeptical tendencies might be pulled more by a framing of "here are the facts science has found..." without always tying it back to how that's a better approach than religion.

I'm not sold on whether it's a bad approach - but it's something I've been thinking about. If you hold an opinion and get the impression that all smart people unanimously disagree with you, you'll naturally move away from it. If instead its presented as "here's why this way is better," it kind of makes it seem like your position isn't complete nonsense since it's worthy of being addressed.

Sort of the same argument about why the bill nye debate was counterproductive, but again I'm not sure.

To be fair, in the creationist debate, many of the scientists the Ken Ham pointed out were in time periods when our understanding of Earth and its history wasn't nearly as complete as it is now.

chaos_sl said:

Are you people fucking serious with this "comet's too close" shit?

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For real.

I think the retard thought it was supposed to be in perfect circular orbit around the earth and not the ellipses orbit, as correctly shown on the TV show.

Bang, I would not.

BrutulTM_sl said:

It's not like your average Christian isn't aware that scientists think the universe is billions of years old.

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I've actually been forced to turn Beyond the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman off by my super religious family because some fact of science contradicts something Jebus wrote in the bible. They actually said that there can't be alien life, because Jebus would have written about it in the bible. Plus the screeching about evolution, age of the planet, big bang theory... Any other remedial level science, too, basically.

People bitch about crappy special effects on this board all the time, but I point out one instance in Cosmos and suddenly everybody flips their shit, like I'm saying Cosmos sucks, or something...

Ah well.

Jarnin_sl said:

People bitch about crappy special effects on this board all the time, but I point out one instance in Cosmos and suddenly everybody flips their shit, like I'm saying Cosmos sucks, or something...

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Except you're not bitching about crappy special effects, you're commenting about physical inaccuracies. That's not the same thing. The special effects are pretty great for a TV show.

Decided to post this here for any NDT fans.
Slo-Mod (or "stoned") NDT speaking about Isaac Newton.


He showed this video to a lecture audience of his, and, in true Physicist form, calculated that this is what it would look like to observers if they were travelling at 85% the speed of light.
See Neil deGrasse Tyson watch himself in slow-motion video

Yeah it looks to me like a question of do you want to win the fight at all costs, or do you want to fight the fight in a certain hardline way at all costs, even if you lose in the end?

Some of the hardliners are like, "Science wins. God ain't up there. Get over it.", and they don't want to give a helping hand at understanding or try to approach the subjects from any sort of softer angle. They figure, "If you can't figure this shit out on your own, you're a dumbass. Not my fault."

Some people, more on my side of the fence, want to compromise and use analogies and metaphors and try to speak the language of their audience and maybe even allow for certain mysticisms and emotional allowances such as, "Sure, IsupposeGod could have initiated the Big Bang.". Of course, that's still not really a logical possibility either, but as long as they are satisfied for that time that God can still be out there, just barely, then they can stop agonizing over it and just start thinking about stars and amino acids and earthquakes with the proper level of curiosity. Seduce them with knowledge, don't rape them with it.

That's my take anyway.

I liken it to my job in a way. For years we had the worst two whip-cracking dipshits running things. They were hateful, none of their protocols worked right, and it was an unhealthy work environment. Big boss finally came down and cleaned house and hired fresh youngleadersin there instead of fresh youngbosses. They say things like 'we' instead of 'you'. They try to help you solve your problem, not try to punish you for them. The point is, when you have power over others (and knowledge is power) you can either become a boss, or a leader.

Sagan didn't instruct me to marvel at science, he showed me how to do it.

Great post Gerbil.