Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey

iannis

iannis

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That last episode was fairly bad.

The subject material was light to begin with and the explanations, I feel like, were intentionally confusing. I think they were trying to be poetic? I mean most of that last episode could be condensed into, "Woah man. Woah. Atoms. Woah." But they weren't talking about much of anything that's WORTH that kind of wonder. Or maybe it is, but not in the detail they were giving the subject. And they're stating things as philosophical truths that are unprovable. It all started with that greek guy because of DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM.

C'mon.

Honestly just not good.
 
Void

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I felt the episode was fine, because occasionally they are going to do stuff that seems pretty mundane to certain people but will still be enlightening to others, but the one part that sort of bothered me was the representation of an assembly line inside the chlorophyll "factory." I'm not saying that many people would actually be dumb enough to think that's what the inside really looks like...but yeah, I'm kinda saying that. I mean, it seems obvious that it was just a fun little graphical thing someone did, but we all know stupidity is astounding at times. I felt it would be better served if they just showed something similar with the molecule just magically being split into separate atoms instead of the fancy little machine doing it in a cute little way.

It just seemed out of place to me, because in general they haven't really "cutesied" up any of the other explanations to that level. They might simplify things, but usually they don't embellish them like that either. However, that's about the most scathing complaint I have had with the show, and it is extremely minor, so overall I'm still incredibly impressed. That particular segment just seemed weird and out of place to me, that's it.
 
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Tenks

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Vvoid_sl said:
I felt the episode was fine, because occasionally they are going to do stuff that seems pretty mundane to certain people but will still be enlightening to others, but the one part that sort of bothered me was the representation of an assembly line inside the chlorophyll "factory." I'm not saying that many people would actually be dumb enough to think that's what the inside really looks like...but yeah, I'm kinda saying that. I mean, it seems obvious that it was just a fun little graphical thing someone did, but we all know stupidity is astounding at times. I felt it would be better served if they just showed something similar with the molecule just magically being split into separate atoms instead of the fancy little machine doing it in a cute little way.

It just seemed out of place to me, because in general they haven't really "cutesied" up any of the other explanations to that level. They might simplify things, but usually they don't embellish them like that either. However, that's about the most scathing complaint I have had with the show, and it is extremely minor, so overall I'm still incredibly impressed. That particular segment just seemed weird and out of place to me, that's it.
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I actually had the same opinion on the factory line there. The show generally does this whole "shrink down" and give you a clear CG of what you'd generally find under a microscope. But instead this time they went full on fiction about how plants make energy.
 
khalid

khalid

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So I watched Sesame Street last night and man, the show was just bad. They just explained shit I already knew and their explanations were, I feel, almost intentionally confusing. I really hope they ramp it up next time.
 
iannis

iannis

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khalid_sl said:
So I watched Sesame Street last night and man, the show was just bad. They just explained shit I already knew and their explanations were, I feel, almost intentionally confusing. I really hope they ramp it up next time.
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Nah man, it's not about that at all. Have you noticed that Tyson is using his Morgan Freeman voice more and more? Have you noticed how "Thou Shalt Not" is becoming a thing when they're talking about scientific principles?

I mean first off, Cosmos doesn't serve the same function as sesame street. You know, these aren't stupid people and these scripts are not rough drafts. So when there is a perfectly obvious way to make them more credible, which the authors pointedly do not take advantage of, you've got to ask yourself why that might be. Not just more credible. To actually use the limited opportunity to teach something, or to highlight an area ofactualwonder.

They've been taking some creative liberty with science history, which is apparently a larger focus in this version of Cosmos than it was in the original, but it's been obvious creative liberty. That last episode was the first where they've flat out resorted to myth-making.
 
iannis

iannis

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You remember how Sagan went over the Drake equation?

At this point it won't suprise me a lot if Tyson mentions it then says, "and there are a lot of variables, but when you do the math -- EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE MUST EXIST!"

That's not what this is supposed to be about. That's just a sermon. A Wellsian sermon, but a sermon all the same.

I mean we started at "this is a show for highschoolers". That's cool. But now it's a show for 5 year olds?

It's ok to admit that they completely fucked an episode up. The episode prior to this was very good.
 
Lenas

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Maybe science needs some fucking sermons. Retards eat it up, and if that's what it takes to get the general populace interested, go for it.
 
khalid

khalid

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Iannis_sl said:
You remember how Sagan went over the Drake equation?
...
it won't suprise me a lot if Tyson mentions it then says, "and there are a lot of variables, but when you do the math -- EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE MUST EXIST!"
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Here we have an example of both





Anyway, I think you are being too hard on the show, but we will see. This show isn't Cosmos and it is a different time than when Cosmos aired. I think a more strident tone for the show is maybe warranted.
 
iannis

iannis

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That is the perversion that they're flirting with.

It's not the end of the world. It's not even the end of the series. It was just a shitty episode.

Edit: To be more clear -- I am not bagging on Tyson personally. I've listened to a lot of his public speech and I do know for a fact that he's smarter than I am and more ethically minded. I'm not even bagging on McFarlane. I'm bagging on this particular episode and the choices that went into the production of it. In the context of this show it wouldn't surprise me if they explained Drake in that fashion -- not that I think Tyson left to himself would choose to do it that way.

You might be right about the tone of the show and the mood of the audience. It pisses me off though. One of the great things about Sagan was his absolutely innocent condescencion. You can't fake that and there was kindness in it, that's what makes it innocent. Tyson can do that. I wish they'd let him.
 
Selix

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Guys. You know were are living with a population of people who seem to value science and education less then our grand and great grand parents did? More then half this country is running talking about 6000 year old earths, evolution isn't real, global warming isn't real, creationism is real, fuck the environment (just not where I live), fuck space investment (more tanks plz!), and homeopathy as a valid replacement to medicine. I'm sure we would all love to have an improved and more in depth version of Cosmos but I fear the country we live in is has regressed to the point where we have to re-teach them the value of the basics first.

Just look at the bullshit we have being played on the History channel. This is what people are learning as "facts" instead of the cool neo geo shit we all grew up with. We have to teach these people why their forefathers created the EPA just so we canbegina discussion on how to best fix it's current implementation issues.
 
Joeboo

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You know, I don't think there's any more religious/creationist people now than there used to be. It's just that 100 years ago, all of those people lived in the bumfuck middle of nowhere on farms and in small towns with no real access to global communication and media of any kind. You just didn't hear from them. Nowadays, you're just as likely to have access to a blog or see a guest on a talk show that is from some tiny town in kansas, as you are to have access to the ideas of a scientist from MIT. That wasn't really the case even as little as 50 years ago. The big cities/coasts dominated all forms of media(and they tend to have a larger % of liberals and highly educated people), and while they still do, a lot more people can get their voice heard now without having to be from those media hubs(for better or worse)
 
BoldW

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Selix_sl said:
Guys. You know were are living with a population of people who seem to value science and education less then our grand and great grand parents did? More then half this country is running talking about 6000 year old earths, evolution isn't real, global warming isn't real, creationism is real, fuck the environment (just not where I live), fuck space investment (more tanks plz!), and homeopathy as a valid replacement to medicine. I'm sure we would all love to have an improved and more in depth version of Cosmos but I fear the country we live in is has regressed to the point where we have to re-teach them the value of the basics first.

Just look at the bullshit we have being played on the History channel. This is what people are learning as "facts" instead of the cool neo geo shit we all grew up with. We have to teach these people why their forefathers created the EPA just so we canbegina discussion on how to best fix it's current implementation issues.
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I think we definitely have problems here in the US, and obviously places like the ME, but the rest of the world seems to be heading on the right track.What's interesting is that, thanks to the northern European countries that are heavily atheistic, if you total all religions/beliefs among the populations of the world, atheism (or nonreligion) comes in 3rd to 4th place (just about tied with Hinduism, though comes in 4th if you take out all theists), yet is completely marginalized in the US and is still used as an insult.
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All the atheists in congress
 
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Tenks

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Selix_sl said:
Guys. You know were are living with a population of people who seem to value science and education less then our grand and great grand parents did? More then half this country is running talking about 6000 year old earths, evolution isn't real, global warming isn't real, creationism is real, fuck the environment (just not where I live), fuck space investment (more tanks plz!), and homeopathy as a valid replacement to medicine. I'm sure we would all love to have an improved and more in depth version of Cosmos but I fear the country we live in is has regressed to the point where we have to re-teach them the value of the basics first.

Just look at the bullshit we have being played on the History channel. This is what people are learning as "facts" instead of the cool neo geo shit we all grew up with. We have to teach these people why their forefathers created the EPA just so we canbegina discussion on how to best fix it's current implementation issues.
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It must be easy to make an argument when you just wildly make up facts. We're living in an unprecedented age of science and if you can't understand that then you are the actual dumb fuck. Using evidence like History channel programming is an entertainment medium. Who do you think developed your smart phone? Who developed 3G? Who managed to shrink down a 8 MP camera, which was super high end 10 years ago, into something that now fits in the palm of your hand? Was it your great grandfather? No. It was modern day scientists who did it. We're discovering things and unraveling the mysteries of physics at a rate that is not slowing down and is certainly eclipsing the bullshit we were doing 50 years ago. We're discovering ice on cosmic items we've never seen before. We're starting to unlock nanotechnology and it's real-world purposes. The fact that you even are attempting to act like people aren't appreciating and pursuing science has got to be one of the most fucking retarded things I've heard.
 
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Tenks

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BoldW_sl said:
I think we definitely have problems here in the US, and obviously places like the ME, but the rest of the world seems to be heading on the right track.What's interesting is that, thanks to the northern European countries that are heavily atheistic, if you total all religions/beliefs among the populations of the world, atheism (or nonreligion) comes in 3rd to 4th place (just about tied with Hinduism, though comes in 4th if you take out all theists), yet is completely marginalized in the US and is still used as an insult.
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All the atheists in congress
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Get your small minded "only atheist know science" bullshit out of this thread and back into the atheist circlejerk thread. There have been plenty of discoveries in science, new and old, by people who have believed in religion.
 
BoldW

BoldW

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Where exactly did I say only atheists know any science? Science doesn't belong to any religion or affiliation. I said non-religious people are under-represented, especially here in the US.

However, those who believe the world is 6000 years old, and many other religious persons do refuse to look at any evidence presented to them that differs from their religious views, and does in fact have a repressive effect (see AiG assholes who pretend they know science). That can indeed be backed up with empirical evidence, so fuck you too.

P.S. There's no one smaller minded than a religious bigot.
 
khalid

khalid

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Tenks_sl said:
Get your small minded "only atheist know science" bullshit out of this thread and back into the atheist circlejerk thread. There have been plenty of discoveries in science, new and old, by people who have believed in religion.
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Wow, a fucking theist talking about small minds, amazing.
 
T

Tenks

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BoldW_sl said:
Where exactly did I say only atheists know any science? Science doesn't belong to any religion or affiliation. I said non-religious people are under-represented, especially here in the US.

However, those who believe the world is 6000 years old, and many other religious persons do refuse to look at any evidence presented to them that differs from their religious views, and does in fact have a repressive effect (see AiG assholes who pretend they know science). That can indeed be backed up with empirical evidence, so fuck you too.

P.S. There's no one smaller minded than a religious bigot.
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Lol you are out of your mind. The creationism movement isn't harming the scientific community. You're literally trying to act like everyone who is religious believes in young Earth. I've never once met a real-life person who believed in young Earth. It is a vocal minority. If the USA is so repressive and uneducated why do we have educational meccas like MIT and are a pillar of modern scientific research and discovery?
 
khalid

khalid

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BoldW_sl said:
yet is completely marginalized in the US and is still used as an insult.

All the atheists in congress
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Yep, this is definitely a problem. The religious indoctrination of kids and that even in today's world, being an atheist is a slur that has more negative political connotations than any religion.

For many people indoctrinated as a child in religion, they don't even know that not believing in God is an option. Their parents, their friends, their teachers, all of them believe in it. It would be absurd not to believe in something that literally every authority figure that you have ever talked to believed in it. That is why shows like Cosmos and others should have at least a "slight" atheist slant. It should be mentioned and brought up.
 
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Tenks

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khalid_sl said:
Wow, a fucking theist talking about small minds, amazing.
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Haha a theist. Yep thats me. Can't get enough church and praising JDawg. The closed mindedness of your average internet atheist (again I hope this is just a vocal minority of real-life atheists) rivals that of the fictional religious person they villify.
 
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