Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey

TBH I think the target audience IS (basically) fifth graders. This is a primer and it's intended to be a primer. The first one was 75% primer, and the most memorable things came from later in the series.

He's no Carl Sagan, but he's no slouch. That Sagan/Asimovv type is an atavism now though. Not even Carl Sagan could manage to be Carl Sagan in 2015.

It seems like Sagan was about 10 years younger than Tyson, and that also makes a difference. Also bear in mind that science is 98% common sense and 2% wtf.

Iannis_sl said:

TBH I think the target audience IS (basically) fifth graders.

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I agree with this. It was as a child that I fell in love with Cosmos, Sagan, and the magic of reality itself. We all had those handful of movies that we watched over and over again as children (or still do). My friend's daughter watches Beauty and the Beast and Little Mermaid over and over. I watched stuff like Willow, Princess Bride, and TMNT. But we also had Cosmos on VHS recorded directly off the TV feed, commercials and all, and it too was one of my 'over and over again' types movies. I must have watched it 50 times and this was all before high school. I've reinforced my love of these subjects over the years but the original genesis of it all was Carl Sagan and Issac Asimov.

That said, Evolution is by a huge margin, my favorite subject on earth. When my friends get me going on evolution they have to eventually tell me to shut up or I'll never stop. The scope, the breadth, the beauty, and above all the immense explanatory power of natural selection will, I hope, never cease to amaze me for the rest of my life. If I can ever find a way to share the gift of this understanding with anyone else, I will (and do) do it. I believe people like Carl, Tyson, Dawkins, etc etc all have a similar feeling inside them. (*edit: In fact I know they do. They're the ones that gave it to me in the first place!)

Because of both of these things; my childhood love of the show Cosmos and my lifetime love of evolution, this last episode was dear to my heart and I was almost afraid of watching it. My fear would be that we would get a History Channel version of evolution. A version produced by spineless people who have a deep seeded fear of the religious right and/or politicians from Oklahoma. But we did not get that at all. We got a very unafraid version of evolution and I couldn't be any happier about it.

I was very happy to see them tackle head on the argument of Irreducible Complexity and was pleasantly surprised that they chose the Eye as their target organ, it being the gold standard of irreducibly complex organs. And the way they did it with the split screen? Brilliant.

The other little subtlety that made me swoon was when he said that dogs domesticated humans. I was beaming from ear to ear when he said that. Of course, we domesticated each other symbiotically just as all organisms do but still, I was so happy to hear him say that.

I must say, all my anxiety and fear about this remake has been totally misplaced and I should congratulate every writer and producer involved in making this. They are doing a very good job.

live stream tonight at 7:30 pm et with a panel hosted by degrasse from the museum of natural history here about the future of technology and privatization in space:link

Yeah I don't think he is "talking down" to anyone. He is trying to explain relatively complex ideas like evolution in a way that everyone can understand. It is about being accessible, not about showing off what a badass scientist he is. I think we get isolated and forget that a staggering number of people in this country do not believe in evolution or any number of other scientific principles. How many of them just don't understand it? Or have never had anyone really explain it to them in a way that makes sense? If you are watching this show and thinking "this sucks, I have known this since I was 10" then you are not the target audience for the show. That isn't to say that the target audience doesn't include people who already know this information, just that you have to approach it differently. I thought he explained evolution very well, very simple and concise. If you or I are talking to our half retarded Midwest family, that is the way we should explain evolution to them. Simple without being insulting, using facts rather than feelings and beliefs.

My only quibble with the evolution episode is that he's still intimating an active guided process rather than a passive unguided process when he talks about the bears. He almost comes out and says it at one point.

That's one point where the writing needed to be more specific even if it was less clear, because he backs away from it immediately -- and that could be confusing to the exact people the explanation is aimed at unfucking. Just a bit of a murky transition, was all. It stuck out at me. Never let the good become the enemy of the perfect, either.

Iannis_sl said:

My only quibble with the evolution episode is that he's still intimating an active guided process rather than a passive unguided process

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Well, it isn't a passive unguided process. Evolution is guided for example by selection pressure. It is not simply random search.

I thought he was pretty clear. He got across the random element and then explained the concept of how those random mutations can impact survivability of a species and be passed on. Which is the guided part. But "guided" sounds like an entity doing it rather than it happening as a response to the environment.

It's a problem with language, I think.

There is no force, as in the case with selective breeding, that is saying "This, not that. That, not this". There is no guidance. Not even the environmental pressures. There are environmental pressures which serve that function, but short of creating God from the Aether you cannot say that the environment "guides". Unless you want to say that the banks guide the river -- which is true in a way and in another way not.

It is literally a semantic argument. The words are just slippery. I just wish more people used selected against. I just think it makes it more accessible to lead with that rather than to head to that, which is where he went. Because you have to go there. State the negation before the accretion. The truth is infinitely complex!

I loved the DNA graphics. Adored the transferase. HEY LITTLE DUDE.

Tarrant_sl said:

I had no idea about the evolution of the eye and to be honest, never really thought much about it. I loved it and I love everything about this series thus far.

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Same I thought it was pretty cool. Also never watched OG Cosmos so that graphic at the end was pretty cool to me as well.

Plenty of science ignorant people out there:

1 in 4 Americans Think Sun Revolves Around Earth: Study - TIME

Kedwyn_sl said:

Plenty of science ignorant people out there:

1 in 4 Americans Think Sun Revolves Around Earth: Study - TIME

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1 in 3 Europeans.

Vaguely on topic: If we could stop prefacing every post in this thread with "WellIalready knew everything in this because I'm so totally smart and all, but it was great..."

Are people scared this thread will judge them harshly if they don't add that? Frankly I think that makes you a bunch of pussies. The fact most of you started out as dicks and assholes only reinforces the theory of evolution.

Now this here? This is fucking bravery.

Tarrant_sl said:

I had no idea about the evolution of the eye and to be honest, never really thought much about it. I loved it and I love everything about this series thus far.

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I'll go one better, I admit I'm pretty ignorant about the science in general being discussed in Cosmos, sure I know the basics and the overall general stuff but I'm enjoying the heck out of the show. I generally don't give science much of a thought day to day just doesn't come up and my telescopes have been sitting in boxes with all our moves lately. I fondly remember Carl Sagan's cosmos but back when it was on I didn't watch tv much.

I think the show talks to a lot of folks like me, generally very interested in this area of science but don't get into much as part of the daily stuff going on.

Also the show makes me want to head to the Hayden Planteruim, spent so many weekends there as a kid it's been 20+ years since I've been to the museum, my Son's a bit to young for that place but may have to figure it out soonish.

Well, anyone who really enjoys science does know the basics of the big bang and evolution - what was covered in the first 2 episodes. The majority of this board is/were gamers, who also tend to be more nerdy, and therefor know most of this stuff already. But as it has been pointed out, Cosmos and NDT have done a great job of displaying things we may already know in a different light or perspective. So even though I may know what has been covered so far, the way it's being explained still causes me to think about it in different ways.

Those who are going to be really drawn to this series are the ones who already have that drive for science. My hope is, with this being on prime-time, that it will get broader viewing than just "science geeks", or at least have those geeks have their kids watch it. I think it helps that it comes right after some animated shows, though it's against total crap like TWD, so who knows.

When I was in highscool/college I loved science, and learning in general, but as I started dealing with life/jobs/relationships, my hunger for knowledge fell off. The fact that this series was being rebooted, and the sad realization that I was almost 20 years behind, really made me excited to learn things again, and I've been on a kick reading all the latest books and watching the videos by all the "out there" scientists. It's also something I'm trying to get my family to watch, as so many of the discoveries and knowledge we have now were completely unknown and would be considered alien to them. I mean, they were born in the 40s where the knowledge of the universe was infinitesimal compared to what we know now. They generally also think things like ghosts exist, that the moon has mysterious effects on us, and aside from hearing about a heated debate on "big bangtheory", have no real understanding of the universe we live in, how it was created, what's out there, and where we're heading.

EDIT: This show has made me want to buy a telescope and head to the tallest place away from lights I can find.