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Trump's Staff
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Doing surgery without antibiotics is very risky, you had a much higher chance of dying from the infection itself.
This is not under contention.
Do you think otherwise.
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Doing surgery without antibiotics is very risky, you had a much higher chance of dying from the infection itself.
This is not under contention.
Do you think otherwise.
yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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The hygiene hypothesis is actually very interesting. I became aware of the concept after visiting smelly ass Paris and people justifying the metro stank. It has a ton of statistical backing and I think makes sense; it's certainly hard to dispute in cases like food allergies. All very interesting. Even the links suggesting increases in half a century, while I couldn't get back to the actual published studies, I'm inclined to believe could be good and accurate.
The fuck does any of this do to validate the notion that 99% of medicine is bacterial/fungal/antibiotic and the other rambling?
Like seriously man, posting intelligent tidbits interlaced with the argument may get a lot of people to look and agree but it won't undo your prompting rant:
This shit is fucking dumb, no matter how not-dumb you start replying to it now.
The fuck does any of this do to validate the notion that 99% of medicine is bacterial/fungal/antibiotic and the other rambling?
Like seriously man, posting intelligent tidbits interlaced with the argument may get a lot of people to look and agree but it won't undo your prompting rant:
This shit is fucking dumb, no matter how not-dumb you start replying to it now.
Tim
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There are two different subjects at play here. One is the ability to perform surgery with pristine enough aseptic technique to give good outcomes to most patients without prophylactic abx, the other is "how much does the abx cost vs how much treating an infection cost." Prophylactic antibiotics aren't given because surgery requires them, but they are a significant countermeasure to lawsuits, denied payments, ect.
Which isn't to say giving them is only justified by greed, its just good practice after a highly invasive procedure.
Lendarios
Trump's Staff
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He didn't said it was impossible for surgery. Nothing is stopping the doctors from cutting you open, and then sewing you back. That is what surgery is at its most basic.
Now the risk of a system wide infection from having air and pathogens, come in direct contact with your internal organs and tissues. now that is where antibiotics came to help.
This was evident during World War 1 and World War 2, where World War 1 had no antibiotics and World War 2 had them
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/366/1562/204
"WW2 was also notable for the emergence in 1942 of penicillin use on the battlefield, an act that would change the management of combat wounds for ever [20,21]. The mortality rate from lower extremity wounds decreased from 7.7 per cent during WW1 to 2.1 per cent during WW2, in part owing to the use of penicillin."
Kithani
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Tim
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oh yeah, definitely, it's weapons grade retarded to try to give antibiotics credit for everything they happen to be used after preventatively. 99% of medicine, haha
Kithani
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I would actually take argument with the entire idea of antibiotics being the only "curative" form of medicine. If a patient who has high blood pressure and start him on an ACE and get it under control, is that not arguably a "cure"? Same for Metformin and diabetes, etc.
Dandain
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I'm no expert, but the reason I doubt we find many sick skeletons in the past, is because I would imagine the life expectancy of most of those conditions are much much shorter. Certain sicknesses are certain death, but others that might not be so obvious are fatal in a different time. Getting severe arthritis in a cold climate with a real winter is a death sentence. The gathering of fuel to burn, and the requirement to hunt / gather and be super productive for a small window of the year are both intractable problems to the individual. When healthy individuals have to leverage all their physical endurance to survive, the sick among us are the first to go because they can't keep up. Juvenile Arthritis is not an intrinsically fatal diagnosis like childhood cancer, but that's because its 2016 and not 16.
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Trump's Staff
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yerm
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Woolygimp
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I use some hyperbole in my arguments. They aren't any less valid. Chronic diseases, like whatever you take your ace inhibitors or blood pressure medications for cannot be "cured".
I have a chronic disease called Seb. Dermatitis. It's my bodies inflammatory reaction to malasezzia, a yeast on everybodies skin. If I take Nizorial (Ketocanazole) I'm perfectly fine and handsome, but when I stop I start looking like I have leprosy. Taking a medication permanently is not a cure, nor am I under the illusion it is.
Only bacterial infections and surgery, with a few things like chemo which kills you mixed in, can cure things, and one relies on the other. The amount of people who are forced to take medication for life vs "take this for a month" is atonishing. If you are prescribed something, it's usually forever unless it's a corticosteroid pack for the flu. The corticosteroids aren't curing the flu, just making you feel better while your body does the hard work.
I have a chronic disease called Seb. Dermatitis. It's my bodies inflammatory reaction to malasezzia, a yeast on everybodies skin. If I take Nizorial (Ketocanazole) I'm perfectly fine and handsome, but when I stop I start looking like I have leprosy. Taking a medication permanently is not a cure, nor am I under the illusion it is.
Only bacterial infections and surgery, with a few things like chemo which kills you mixed in, can cure things, and one relies on the other. The amount of people who are forced to take medication for life vs "take this for a month" is atonishing. If you are prescribed something, it's usually forever unless it's a corticosteroid pack for the flu. The corticosteroids aren't curing the flu, just making you feel better while your body does the hard work.
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'Cure' itself is a tough word conceptually. Mostly we mean 'managed' when we say it.
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Zaphid
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I love you.
BTW we can cure immune problems with bone marrow transplants, however the whole procedure is so risky it is rarely worth it. Also who the fuck uses corticoids for the flu ?
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What a ridiculous notion. Smallpox ran rampant and killed untold millions until it was all but eradicated due to vaccination (e.g. it was "cured" by preventative means). There are a large number of people working on cures for chronic diseases at all times. Hopefully, they're much less glass-half-empty than you are.
ZyyzYzzy
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Well I mean, smallpox is caused (was I guess since we eradicated it) by a bacterial infection of Variola major (and minor)