Needless
Toe Sucker
- 9,547
- 3,504
havelyn !?!?! hue hue hue
ADP is good but only to a point lol, i'm just doing it to see what max ADP would actually do. When i get bored i'll play that silly character
Dark Souls 2
- Thread starter Malt_sl
- Start date
ADP is good but only to a point lol, i'm just doing it to see what max ADP would actually do. When i get bored i'll play that silly character
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
- 8,423
- 8,192
They will though. There quickly becomes a point where spending points on anything but more vit to wear heavier gear is less of a benefit than the heavier armor stats.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,978
- 4,464
If you want to PVP at a certain SM range now, you have to backup your savegame at the beginning of your day and delete all progress once you're finished. Soul Memory is also really, really stupid. It applies to souls lost due to death, souls lost to buy stuff, to repair stuff, on spell casts used that cost souls, on that +10 armor set in your closet you thought was worth it but ultimately wasn't.
If you want a PVP focused character, you're basically forced to reroll at some point due to all these mistakes you surely made. And then you need to halt progress.
It's that stupid, yes.
I'm doing a lot of very low level PVP now, and it's amazing how buff the Blue sentinels are that get summoned to aid. I invade FOFG bonfire 1, and they come with equipment from midgame... There's no way they're anywhere close to my 20k SM. So I don't even see the point of SM anymore, wasn't it's point to prevent SL1 players with twink gear to take out true newbies? Those newbies just need to join way of blue and they're set.
If you want a PVP focused character, you're basically forced to reroll at some point due to all these mistakes you surely made. And then you need to halt progress.
It's that stupid, yes.
I'm doing a lot of very low level PVP now, and it's amazing how buff the Blue sentinels are that get summoned to aid. I invade FOFG bonfire 1, and they come with equipment from midgame... There's no way they're anywhere close to my 20k SM. So I don't even see the point of SM anymore, wasn't it's point to prevent SL1 players with twink gear to take out true newbies? Those newbies just need to join way of blue and they're set.
Dandai
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 5,918
- 4,504
Beat it at roughly 60 hours played, but I did leave it up in majula while I afk'd here and there. Overall I liked it, but I never played Demons Souls or Dark Souls 1. I don't know that I liked it enough to do several playthroughs or anything crazy like that, but I did appreciate the difficulty and puzzle-y components. I probably took a strange progression path, but I didn't find it to be linear at all (at least not until you get the 4 great souls). It seems like I got to the end of an area and went off to explore another. This lead to me beating The Lost Sinner, Old Iron King, and Rotten all within an hour of each other.
My biggest complaint would have to be that I have to wiki so much about the game (or come here and bug you guys with noob questions). They should really expound on game systemswithinthe game. I don't feel like the mystery of how game mechanics work heightened the experience at all. For example, it took me 30 hours to figure out how I could drop a sign and do coop multiplayer - I kept waiting for an item to drop so I could do it. Honestly, I still don't know how to drop messages or engage in pvp (after looking for those answers in game; I know how to use google).
My biggest complaint would have to be that I have to wiki so much about the game (or come here and bug you guys with noob questions). They should really expound on game systemswithinthe game. I don't feel like the mystery of how game mechanics work heightened the experience at all. For example, it took me 30 hours to figure out how I could drop a sign and do coop multiplayer - I kept waiting for an item to drop so I could do it. Honestly, I still don't know how to drop messages or engage in pvp (after looking for those answers in game; I know how to use google).
Pemulis
Not Woke
- 3,321
- 9,241
I'm staying at 150 because I'm hoping they change soul memory in ng+ and beyond. Builds at that level are plenty powerful enough to do anything pve, and I don't want to have to start a new character to face competition that isn't fast-rolling havelyn darkmages with mundane santiers spears
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,978
- 4,464
What is your SM at right now and how do you prevent it from slowly rising to Havelmagelyn SM areas?
I myself realized I may not care about PVP at all, because I'm so fucking bad at it or don't get it. I did like 50 invasions with my new character @ 20k SM, and I got fucking wasted most of the time, even if it was 1vs1. Every third fight had a blue sentinel in it and I won like 5 or 6...
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
- 8,423
- 8,192
Invading that low is retarded, nearly everyone you hit is going to be in the way of the blue and double team you. And that low on souls/levels/gear it's cleric or nothing, none of the other starting classes are even close in terms of power.
Dandai
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 5,918
- 4,504
Saw this on reddit:Agility and iFrame correlation data. : DarkSouls2
So I decided to finally stop being lazy and do some actual hard number data on the correlation between agility and iFrame counts. I will probably put this into a video at some point, but for now here is a bit of data. FYI I did this on PC but knocked my FPS down to 30 so that the frame count would cover all platforms. I also double checked at 60 fps to verify there weren't any strange rounding errors, and it was identical.
AGI - iFrames
85 - 8
90 - 9
95 - 10
100 - 12
105 - 13
110 - 13
115 - 15
120 - 16
For reference, here are the numbers I got from Dks 1 awhile back.
Slow Roll - 9
Medium Roll - 11
Fast Roll - 13
DWGR - 15
So in a nutshell, 120 agi is superior to DWGR in regards to iFrames, though the flip still had faster recovery for unadulterated spammage. 105 agi is equivalent to the fast roll and unless you're willing to go to 115 for the extra 2 iFrames, it's not worth it. I didn't test at 1 increment steps, but I'm quite sure somewhere between 110 and 115 would give you 14 iFrames, but again it's a steep cost for little gain. 85 agi is actually 1 iFrame less than fat roll, while 100 agi is 1 iFrame more than medium roll.
As you can see, the scaling is not linear. I went back and verified the 100 agi number more than once, and it is correct. Either the scaling is purposely flattened in that area to provide a good break point, or it's some sort of bug.
How did I test this? The same way I did in Dks 1, using a long duration AOE attack so that I could easily see at what point in the roll I became vulnerable. In Dks 1 I used the 4 Kings AOE because the hit box was longer than even the DWGR, ;IE impossible to roll through. In Dks 2 I used Licia's WoG which again is longer than even the highest iFrame count possible. Even on an absolute perfectly timed roll, meaning the first frame of my roll coincided with the first frame of her WoG becoming active, it still hit me at the end. They may have nerfed player WoG's, but Licia's is running at full tilt. What's strange is the light from the WoG ended long before my iFrames ran out, but there was this massive lingering phantom hit box afterwards. You could probably roll away from it if you were naked and not directly in front of her, otherwise you're toast.
Take from this what you will, I thought I'd finally get around to ending any speculation and just giving some hard data numbers. I'd like to get around to making an actual video explaining it all and showing how I validated these numbers, but it's going to take some time to do it right.
Edit:
Did a little more testing and have come to a few more conclusions.
Weight only affects roll distance. It has no affect on iFrames or roll duration. Whether you are at 0% burden, or 70%, your entire roll takes about 25 frames to complete.
Agility only affects iFrames. As long as you aren't fat rolling, you get as many iFrames at 70% burden as you do butt-naked.
16 iFrames out of 25 is actually very, very strong and only a couple frames off of the DWGR 15/22(at max burden limit). DWGR had 15/19 while naked, but that wasn't realistic.
120 agi gives you invincibility for 64% of the roll animation. DWGR at 50% burden was 68% of the roll animation.
Most people aren't going to go for the full 120, but even at only 12-13 iFrames you're basically invulnerable for about 50% of the roll animation(starting from frame 1).
AGI - iFrames
85 - 8
90 - 9
95 - 10
100 - 12
105 - 13
110 - 13
115 - 15
120 - 16
For reference, here are the numbers I got from Dks 1 awhile back.
Slow Roll - 9
Medium Roll - 11
Fast Roll - 13
DWGR - 15
So in a nutshell, 120 agi is superior to DWGR in regards to iFrames, though the flip still had faster recovery for unadulterated spammage. 105 agi is equivalent to the fast roll and unless you're willing to go to 115 for the extra 2 iFrames, it's not worth it. I didn't test at 1 increment steps, but I'm quite sure somewhere between 110 and 115 would give you 14 iFrames, but again it's a steep cost for little gain. 85 agi is actually 1 iFrame less than fat roll, while 100 agi is 1 iFrame more than medium roll.
As you can see, the scaling is not linear. I went back and verified the 100 agi number more than once, and it is correct. Either the scaling is purposely flattened in that area to provide a good break point, or it's some sort of bug.
How did I test this? The same way I did in Dks 1, using a long duration AOE attack so that I could easily see at what point in the roll I became vulnerable. In Dks 1 I used the 4 Kings AOE because the hit box was longer than even the DWGR, ;IE impossible to roll through. In Dks 2 I used Licia's WoG which again is longer than even the highest iFrame count possible. Even on an absolute perfectly timed roll, meaning the first frame of my roll coincided with the first frame of her WoG becoming active, it still hit me at the end. They may have nerfed player WoG's, but Licia's is running at full tilt. What's strange is the light from the WoG ended long before my iFrames ran out, but there was this massive lingering phantom hit box afterwards. You could probably roll away from it if you were naked and not directly in front of her, otherwise you're toast.
Take from this what you will, I thought I'd finally get around to ending any speculation and just giving some hard data numbers. I'd like to get around to making an actual video explaining it all and showing how I validated these numbers, but it's going to take some time to do it right.
Edit:
Did a little more testing and have come to a few more conclusions.
Weight only affects roll distance. It has no affect on iFrames or roll duration. Whether you are at 0% burden, or 70%, your entire roll takes about 25 frames to complete.
Agility only affects iFrames. As long as you aren't fat rolling, you get as many iFrames at 70% burden as you do butt-naked.
16 iFrames out of 25 is actually very, very strong and only a couple frames off of the DWGR 15/22(at max burden limit). DWGR had 15/19 while naked, but that wasn't realistic.
120 agi gives you invincibility for 64% of the roll animation. DWGR at 50% burden was 68% of the roll animation.
Most people aren't going to go for the full 120, but even at only 12-13 iFrames you're basically invulnerable for about 50% of the roll animation(starting from frame 1).
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,978
- 4,464
Nah as I said only every third fight was way of blue. I still lost almost every other fight as well, cleric or not.
Joeboo
Molten Core Raider
- 8,157
- 140
I swear to god, I spend more time clearing trash on the way to a boss than spending time on the boss itself. I had gotten in the habit of clearing the trash 10 times on the path to a boss, so I could focus on working on the boss and not clearing trash while I'm learning the boss encounter. Particularly annoying was the trek down to the lost sinner. That longass lift ride down to the sewers, and then those big behemoth things with the long tails that they whip you with in the sewer. Cleared all that 10 times, took probably a solid hour, then the lost sinner was a total pud and I beat him on the 2nd try, lol. Guess maybe I don't need to clear all the trash out to make runbacks easier.
So far I'm up through Lost Sinner/Skeleton Chariot thingy/Skeletal Lords(so maybe through first 1/3 of the game), and all the bosses in the game are way, WAY easier than Dark Souls 1. No boss has taken more than about 3 tries to kill other than The Pursuer, he was a bitch when I was working on him(mainly because I didn't have a good shield at the time). Took me probably 10-15 tries to get him down.
So far I'm up through Lost Sinner/Skeleton Chariot thingy/Skeletal Lords(so maybe through first 1/3 of the game), and all the bosses in the game are way, WAY easier than Dark Souls 1. No boss has taken more than about 3 tries to kill other than The Pursuer, he was a bitch when I was working on him(mainly because I didn't have a good shield at the time). Took me probably 10-15 tries to get him down.
Needless
Toe Sucker
- 9,547
- 3,504
You can absolutely run passed most things, in my first playthrough i cleared almost all the trash just to know where everything was, then if i died on the eventual boss-if i could, i would usually just skip all that i can.
The sinner for example, from the sinner's rise bonfire, down the ladder. take the elevator, hit the switch so it goes back up then roll off. Run through the water and up the staircase, through one of the metal gates (assuming you already did the gargoyles to get the key) and run across the little beam to the boss. 0 fights and takes maybe 30 seconds to a minute? if you die the lift is already at the top so you can do it again without pulling the lever.
Ancient Dragon area is the same thing, you can run passed all the sentinels, the 2 before the wooden door you need to bait an attack before you open the door so they don't hit you while you're opening it. then just run passed everything on the big ass set of stairs. 0 fights needed.
The sinner for example, from the sinner's rise bonfire, down the ladder. take the elevator, hit the switch so it goes back up then roll off. Run through the water and up the staircase, through one of the metal gates (assuming you already did the gargoyles to get the key) and run across the little beam to the boss. 0 fights and takes maybe 30 seconds to a minute? if you die the lift is already at the top so you can do it again without pulling the lever.
Ancient Dragon area is the same thing, you can run passed all the sentinels, the 2 before the wooden door you need to bait an attack before you open the door so they don't hit you while you're opening it. then just run passed everything on the big ass set of stairs. 0 fights needed.
Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,699
- 5,527
Just for future reference, there's no good reason to ever use a shield vs. Pursuer. Just two-hand your weapon and you'll find it's much easier. The first one you can parry and then shoot with a ballista, or you can just fight it straight up. Parrying his charge attack--the first thing he does every time--is trivial with a 2H weapon and probably just as easy with a small shield, though I never actually tried that. Fighting straight up is still simple, because as long as you remember to roll through him as he moves towards you he can never actually hit you. Rolling sideways makes it so you can't get back into position to hit him in time and you leave yourself open. This works even with base agility. If you use a shield and block his attacks, you have the same problem as rolling sideways. By the time recovery frames end and you can counterattack, he will be getting ready to do his next move and he'll probably hit you with that one.
I beat the game yesterday on my hexer. Some fights were stupid easy. Great resonant soul = iwin button.
Start ng+ and immediately die in the opening area, not expecting any enemies so I run into about 4 who just rape me. So far have Heidi done in ng+. The difficulty is definitely up and the red phantoms are fucking rough sometimes. Those bosses are still a cakewalk though. I'm really not looking forward to darklurker and a few other bosses in ng+.
Start ng+ and immediately die in the opening area, not expecting any enemies so I run into about 4 who just rape me. So far have Heidi done in ng+. The difficulty is definitely up and the red phantoms are fucking rough sometimes. Those bosses are still a cakewalk though. I'm really not looking forward to darklurker and a few other bosses in ng+.
Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,699
- 5,527
I got bored with NG+ about 40% through it. No significant changes really, even Flexile Sentry and Lost Sinner were still a joke. Don't find the red phantoms to be an issue, buffed santier's spear + sacred oath wrecks everything same as before. And that's with me forcing myself to not use GRS and GLS.
Dandain
Trakanon Raider
- 2,092
- 917
Dark souls is like many games though, its pick your difficulty. If your goal is to theorycraft the most broken build that might or might not have been overlooked in testing then certainly there is no challenge left, but if you want to play through the game with a different set of melee weapons, light armor no shield no magic. Whatever constraints you want. Instagibbing every enemy kind of defeats the purpose of the game don't you think? Maybe its From's fault they allowed something so OP to get through the game, but given that its single player at its core, the systems work really well with all the weapon variety.