Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

Chris · Jun 25, 2023

Kirun said:
D4 is no showstopper of an ARPG but to say that it has worse itemization than D3 or even suggest that it borrow things from Immortal and/or D3? Trolololololol.

At that point you're just purposely being a retard.

It objectivley does.

My favorite is when the bracers drop with +skills to Twisting Blades, Flurry and Penetrating Shot. The skills are mutually exclusive and you can't even fix it with enchanting because you have two useless stats.

And how about those multiple +resists and +damage to thing you don't do rolls?

It's garbage. I got WT4 on farm within 2 weeks (I'm still 6 levels underlevelled) and I have nothing to do other than scale up my loot - but the world also scales up and it cancels out so why would I bother?

jayrebb · Jun 25, 2023

Chris said:
The world layouts and server/multiplayer infrastructure is identical, but they added some neat if flawed multiplayer mechanics like the Shadows doing their times events every day so it felt like a secret society.

Diablo Immortal is the better game and a good idea of what Diablo 4's live service is going to be (fuck all).

It tugs at the soul that a throwaway mobile game has a better live service than a full production AAA sequel in D4.

Being able to actually go LFG and get groups with real people that you can persistently see in the city. And leaderboards, wew lads.

Maxroll beta tested with Blizzard for well over a year, I find it hard to believe this never came up that maybe the live service is nonexistent and a bad idea if they have limited intentions to develop the live service. Trading/crafting not being a thing is expected in D4 based on the all out lack of live service support in general. Players are just annoying bugs you see when an NPC says HELP ME.

As T Torrid implied on last page. QoL might not go far enough. It likely needs a new lead in the same vein that RoS needed a new lead in D3. The current lead doesn't seem to realize how undeveloped the D4 live service is (based on the last campfire chat, he shrugged off basic QoL like grouping and gave no timeline). He should be trying to answer "Why D4 is a live service game?" and solve that question as his design philosophy. It's the only way this game can improve when it drops it's expansion.

Kirun · Jun 25, 2023

Chris said:
It objectivley does.

My favorite is when the bracers drop with +skills to Twisting Blades, Flurry and Penetrating Shot. The skills are mutually exclusive and you can't even fix it with enchanting because you have two useless stats.

And how about those multiple +resists and +damage to thing you don't do rolls?

I agree. Every item should drop with perfectly paired affixes and rolls, it would make for a much better game.

Lumi · Jun 25, 2023

Chris said:
It's garbage. I got WT4 on farm within 2 weeks (I'm still 6 levels underlevelled) and I have nothing to do other than scale up my loot - but the world also scales up and it cancels out so why would I bother?

Nm dungeons don't scale so if you want to maintain highest xp gain potential you have to be doing dungeons atleast 3 levels above you. I believe you also gain higher glyph xp the higher the tier dungeon you do. Oh and items have a higher chance to roll higher ilvl the higher the tier.

Honestly d4 is like a play 1 to 2 hours max a day type game imo. At least as far as end game is concerned. The game definitely feels good when you've got a good build but it gets stale kinda quick.

Chris · Jun 25, 2023

Kirun said:
I agree. Every item should drop with perfectly paired affixes and rolls, it would make for a much better game.

I'm obviously not saying that, they just got the ratio wrong. The chance of trash is too high.

I went whole days without finding anything, half my gear isn't even Ancestral yet because almost nothing was useable despite loads of Ancestral pieces dropping, never mind perfect rolls.

Oh but enemies die so quickly it doesn't really matter about getting better gear... so why play?

Lumi said:
Nm dungeons don't scale so if you want to maintain highest xp gain potential you have to be doing dungeons atleast 3 levels above you. I believe you also gain higher glyph xp the higher the tier dungeon you do. Oh and items have a higher chance to roll higher ilvl the higher the tier.

Yeah so the only reason to play it epeen on your highest completed Nightmare Dungeon... oh but no leaderboards even though D2 had that on launch.

Ambiturner · Jun 25, 2023

Chris said:
Yeah so the only reason to play it epeen on your highest completed Nightmare Dungeon... oh but no leaderboards even though D2 had that on launch.

Unlike most ARPG's where playing it makes your dick bigger.

Jesus Fuck why are you retarded about everything?

Chris · Jun 25, 2023

Ambiturner said:
Unlike most ARPG's where playing it makes your dick bigger.

Jesus Fuck why are you retarded about everything?

Well Path of Exile and even Torchlight Infinite have layers of unique pinnacle bosses dropping better loot.

All I have to look forward to in Diablo 4 is grinding for weeks to kill Lilith again and getting nothing for it and nobody knowing I did it.

uniqueuser · Jun 25, 2023

Mahes said:
I guess one way to kind of enjoy the game is to start over with a different class.

I think it's funny that players usually find the journey to be the most enjoyable part of a game while the majority of online RPG dev time is spent on the post-max/elder game/whatever experience, yet this mismatch is rarely acknowledged by the game makers and the players themselves seem content to focus their feedback on the portion of the game that's least satisfying to them.

Retarded devs + retarded players = retarded games. Brilliant!

Araxen · Jun 25, 2023

This site is worth bookmarking. It'll tell you where the 175 helltide boxes are on the map during a Helltide.

Diablo 4 Helltide Event Tracker and Chest Locations

A Diablo 4 tool to get notifications for upcoming Helltide events and Tortured Gifts of Mysteries Chest locations.

helltides.com

mkopec · Jun 25, 2023

uniqueuser said:
I think it's funny that players usually find the journey to be the most enjoyable part of a game while the majority of online RPG dev time is spent on the post-max/elder game/whatever experience, yet this mismatch is rarely acknowledged by the game makers and the players themselves seem content to focus their feedback on the portion of the game that's least satisfying to them.

Retarded devs + retarded players = retarded games. Brilliant!

Thats been the thing since inception of the RPG, or if not not, not long after, lol. Its always... "Gotta hurry to the end game, thats where the REAL game begins." Its been the mantra for decades now.

Chris · Jun 25, 2023

uniqueuser said:
I think it's funny that players usually find the journey to be the most enjoyable part of a game while the majority of online RPG dev time is spent on the post-max/elder game/whatever experience, yet this mismatch is rarely acknowledged by the game makers and the players themselves seem content to focus their feedback on the portion of the game that's least satisfying to them.

Retarded devs + retarded players = retarded games. Brilliant!

Why not both?

PoE has 10 acts, soon to be 17. The endgame is the same randomly generated tilesets as the story zones, so they just designed a handful of new boss battles. PoE dev time is going into the league content that is spread throughout every levelling and endgame zone.

Diablo 4 really fucked themselves by having static zones and forgetting how to randomly generate again so the dungeons are also very predictable. New content has to be made from scratch and they don't even have rift corridors like D3 had.

Anyway replayability is the entire point of the genre.

Seananigans · Jun 25, 2023

Mahes said:
Glyphs.

My mistake.

Ok I was confused since you said re-acquire. Aren’t glyphs class specific? Thus it kind of makes sense to have to start with no rare glyphs on an alt?

Chris · Jun 25, 2023

Mizake · Jun 25, 2023

Chris said:
Why not both?

PoE has 10 acts, soon to be 17. The endgame is the same randomly generated tilesets as the story zones, so they just designed a handful of new boss battles. PoE dev time is going into the league content that is spread throughout every levelling and endgame zone.

Diablo 4 really fucked themselves by having static zones and forgetting how to randomly generate again so the dungeons are also very predictable. New content has to be made from scratch and they don't even have rift corridors like D3 had.

Anyway replayability is the entire point of the genre.

These PoE comparisons are so off point. PoE has been around like 10 years. How many acts did it release with? Certainly not 10. It’s had a decade to create and add content. All those cool league mechanics were not there at launch. Would you even play the original PoE today without the years of post release content?

It reminds me of all the MMOs that came after WoW and people bitching about not enough content or things to do compared to WoW when WoW had already had years of content added and was already a matured product.

jayrebb · Jun 25, 2023

Chris said:

Gem tabs 4-5 months out. Changes to live service/grouping/bosses/raiding at least 2-3 years?

Cinge · Jun 25, 2023

mkopec said:
Thats been the thing since inception of the RPG, or if not not, not long after, lol. Its always... "Gotta hurry to the end game, thats where the REAL game begins." Its been the mantra for decades now.

The irony being, no matter how much you focus on the end game, you will never keep up the pace that players devour it.

A game really needs to decide, do we want hardcore or casuals Do we want mass appeal or stick to our niche. And focus on that and just ignore the others. But nope, money is king, so they all try to appease everyone and end up appeasing no one.

The people who put in 100-200 hours in just 2-3 weeks, are going to get bored and quit no matter what, unless its their job(aka the ones that do YT videos for only that game/genre).

uniqueuser · Jun 25, 2023

Mizake said:
It reminds me of all the MMOs that came after WoW and people bitching about not enough content or things to do compared to WoW when WoW had already had years of content added and was already a matured product.

The players aren't the dummies here; it's the double-retarded devs for thinking they can throw down with the top dogs (even if it's themselves) in an established market by offering such a similar but immature product.

Xevy · Jun 25, 2023

Video games nowadays have the problem where 80, 90% of your base is 6 hours a week casuals. But for that 10-20% they get 99% of the exposure to the public. So, do you make a game to impress the Asmongolds and Zizarians and people whose literal job it is to play these games or do you make it for the ACTUAL massive foundation of your game, the casuals.

So trying to tailor shit to the average person just gets blown off as "that's not enough" by the big timers and making challenging, HARD encounters for the streamers gets the Dayjob Danny's all riled up because it's content being added they'll most likely never get to experience.

mkopec · Jun 25, 2023

Xevy said:
Video games nowadays have the problem where 80, 90% of your base is 6 hours a week casuals. But for that 10-20% they get 99% of the exposure to the public. So, do you make a game to impress the Asmongolds and Zizarians and people whose literal job it is to play these games or do you make it for the ACTUAL massive foundation of your game, the casuals.

So trying to tailor shit to the average person just gets blown off as "that's not enough" by the big timers and making challenging, HARD encounters for the streamers gets the Dayjob Danny's all riled up because it's content being added they'll most likely never get to experience.

The thing is is what do you add then to the game? More story hour shit? Or end game? I really feel that in ordeer to make everyone happy you have to cater to the hardcore in some way, because if the hardcore are not playing this and streaming it or playing it, then many would consider this a dead game. Besides we all know what happens when they cater to the casuals, no one ends up being happy, see the latest iteration of WOW. Of course you will never satisfy the hardcore with content drops, but still you have to try. Because even if the casuals of today wil never see it, eventually they will and it gives them a sense of purpose in the game.

Ambiturner · Jun 25, 2023

mkopec said:
The thing is is what do you add then to the game? More story hour shit? Or end game? I really feel that in ordeer to make everyone happy you have to cater to the hardcore in some way, because if the hardcore are not playing this and streaming it or playing it, then many would consider this a dead game. Besides we all know what happens when they cater to the casuals, no one ends up being happy, see the latest iteration of WOW. Of course you will never satisfy the hardcore with content drops, but still you have to try. Because even if the casuals of today wil never see it, eventually they will and it gives them a sense of purpose in the game.

Catering to the hardcore means an insane Korean grind that sane people nope the fuck out.

Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

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