Do you have health insurance?

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Cutlery

Cutlery

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That's how they get you. Separate you out into different classes, then just hit one class at a time. Piss of the 50 guys downstairs? Np, as long as we make the contract decent enough for the other 500 guys, they'll vote yes on it.

I specifically enjoy the contract that passed 500-100, with the 100 being almost the exact number of guys that they fucked out of 6 grand a year, no other changes to the contract. Also great when other people transfer into the department and say "Hey, what happened to that?" You tell me, you voted for it, shithead.

It's a great strategy, gotta give the company credit. People in general are too selfish about their own concerns and don't give a fuck what the guy next to them gets.
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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I love how the idea that employer provided health care is part of your pay and thus not "free" is completely incomprehensible to you guys.
 
Cutlery

Cutlery

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BrutulTM_sl said:
I love how the idea that employer provided health care is part of your pay and thus not "free" is completely incomprehensible to you guys.
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It's not lost on me at all, if you're directing that at me. Did you not see how I said we gave up shit for it? I know it's coming out of our total package.

That doesn't lead me to believe that each of us would get paid an extra $1000 a month if we didn't have it, however. That's the difference between our thoughts.
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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Cutlery_sl said:
It's not lost on me at all, if you're directing that at me. Did you not see how I said we gave up shit for it? I know it's coming out of our total package.

That doesn't lead me to believe that each of us would get paid an extra $1000 a month if we didn't have it, however. That's the difference between our thoughts.
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This is also what I've tried explaining to him.
 
BrutulTM

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And why not? Maybe there's some tax benefits and such for the employers but it's just a cost of employing you exactly like your salary is. You keep stating this belief that for some reason an employer is willing to spend money on health care that they would not be willing to spend on salary as if it's a fact but offer nothing to support the idea. Cadillac health plans are your employers wasting your money on your behalf.
 
Prodigal

Prodigal

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There are obvious reasons an employer is willing to invest more money in your healthcare plan than they would give to you as salary - having a vested interest in a (presumably) reliable, trained employee being able to work is just one of them. Large employers obviously can negotiate better prices per employee for this "Cadillac" insurance than what the stated value of said insurance is to the employee.
 
T

Taloo_sl

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Kuriin_sl said:
Get a plan that has at least a $150,000 limit. You mean you'll be hitting THAT limit within 6 months in terms of medical?

I'm on student insurance, but it's effin' great. 80/20 plan with low OOP and low deductible. High annual limit. Before that, I got denied by a private insurer because I told them I was on isonizaid for latent tuberculosis. What fucking cockgobblers.
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I meant office visits/script coverage. At which point I would be covered only for catastrophic medical expenses. Even then the window of expenses that would not put me into financial ruin despite the coverage is so small as to not be worthwhile. I'll see if I can get the coverage details off our intranet or something so I can give some exact numbers.
 
BrutulTM

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Prodigal_sl said:
There are obvious reasons an employer is willing to invest more money in your healthcare plan than they would give to you as salary - having a vested interest in a (presumably) reliable, trained employee being able to work is just one of them. Large employers obviously can negotiate better prices per employee for this "Cadillac" insurance than what the stated value of said insurance is to the employee.
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They can negotiate better prices for moderate insurance as well. The "better" your insurance plan is, the more money goes into the pockets of the insurance company. That is a fact. Insurance companies aren't trying to sell you on the bare bones policy because it won't make them as much money. Compare the premiums on a zero deductible plan vs. those of a plan with a deductible over a year. The difference will be more than the deductible. Zero deductible means you pay your deductible in premiums whether you get sick or not and then you have your copays on top of that. If people were making informed decisions about their own health care and paying their own premiums they would shop very differently than they do when they are getting it for "free" from their employer.
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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My zero deductible plan was cheaper then my deductible plan and cost my employer less, though they are provided through different health providers. We have around 11 different options when it comes to health care plans/providers, I can't remember the prices for all of them off the top of my head, I know they were adding more from the last email they sent out with also the option to a la carte as well.
 
Kuriin

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Can you tell me your benefits, Tarrant? Co-pay, Co-insurance, max OOP, max annual limit? Does it include drug benefits as well, or are they carved out to a different plan?
 
Cutlery

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BrutulTM_sl said:
They can negotiate better prices for moderate insurance as well. The "better" your insurance plan is, the more money goes into the pockets of the insurance company. That is a fact. Insurance companies aren't trying to sell you on the bare bones policy because it won't make them as much money. Compare the premiums on a zero deductible plan vs. those of a plan with a deductible over a year. The difference will be more than the deductible. Zero deductible means you pay your deductible in premiums whether you get sick or not and then you have your copays on top of that. If people were making informed decisions about their own health care and paying their own premiums they would shop very differently than they do when they are getting it for "free" from their employer.
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What's your end goal here? Do you want us to all go to our employers and demand shittier health insurance? I'm trying to figure out what you want the world to do with your arguments here. Last I heard, it was around $800 a month for each of us for our health plans at the company, and that was a number of years ago now, so it's quite likely more than that. If you think in any fucking way that going to a cheaper health plan would result in the difference being put in my pocket, I personally believe you to be under the influence of a controlled substance.
 
Tarrant

Tarrant

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Kuriin_sl said:
Can you tell me your benefits, Tarrant? Co-pay, Co-insurance, max OOP, max annual limit? Does it include drug benefits as well, or are they carved out to a different plan?
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I choose our Health Partners plan, I have one of their main offices right next door to me so it makes it nice.

Co-Pay: It's different for different things, I have a huge list of it somewhere but I'll try to type what I remember. If you want to know more I can dig it up later. (Right now I'm about to pack the kids up and take them back to their mothers) Let me know if you want to know more, this is just what I remember off the top of my head.

Clinic: $25 (There is no in or out of network with my plan, my kids go to a totally different clinic 4 hours away and co pays remain the same)
Specialist: $40
Urgent Care: $50
Prescription: $10 Generics - $20 Name Brand
ER: $100
Ambulance Service: $100 (Unlimited usage/mileage)
Hospital Stay: $250 (This covers everything in terms of testing and however long you stay, were my wife to give birth it covers everything involving her stay and baby related as well)
Chiropractor: $20 (40 visits per year)
Acupuncture: $20 (40 visits per year)

Deductible: Zero
Max OOP: $2000

It covers counselling/rehab stuff too but I can't tell you specifics off the top of my head. It covers everything I could ever need it to.
 
Kuriin

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Do you know if there's an annual limit? Like, once you hit $50,000, your insurance immediately cuts off from covering you.

Sounds like a pretty damned good insurance plan to me. When I worked with union insurance plans, the hardest part was worker's comp due to an injury. Trying to get a hold of an adjuster was a waste of time, lol.
 
Cutlery

Cutlery

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Kuriin_sl said:
Do you know if there's an annual limit? Like, once you hit $50,000, your insurance immediately cuts off from covering you.

Sounds like a pretty damned good insurance plan to me. When I worked with union insurance plans, the hardest part was worker's comp due to an injury. Trying to get a hold of an adjuster was a waste of time, lol.
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That's covered by the company. Any comp claim doesn't go to my own insurance, it's covered 100% by the employer.
 
BrutulTM

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Cutlery_sl said:
What's your end goal here? Do you want us to all go to our employers and demand shittier health insurance? I'm trying to figure out what you want the world to do with your arguments here. Last I heard, it was around $800 a month for each of us for our health plans at the company, and that was a number of years ago now, so it's quite likely more than that. If you think in any fucking way that going to a cheaper health plan would result in the difference being put in my pocket, I personally believe you to be under the influence of a controlled substance.
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I think that the people should pay for their own health insurance so they would make more rational decisions and stop volunteering to be fleeced by insurance companies. Yes your employer would pay you more if they didn't have to cover your insurance. There is no reason that they wouldn't.
 
Cutlery

Cutlery

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BrutulTM_sl said:
I think that the people should pay for their own health insurance so they would make more rational decisions and stop volunteering to be fleeced by insurance companies. Yes your employer would pay you more if they didn't have to cover your insurance. There is no reason that they wouldn't.
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Companies are sitting on the largest stockpiles of money ever and wages are stagnant. What's the reason they're not paying people more?
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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BrutulTM_sl said:
I think that the people should pay for their own health insurance so they would make more rational decisions and stop volunteering to be fleeced by insurance companies. Yes your employer would pay you more if they didn't have to cover your insurance. There is no reason that they wouldn't.
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That's a little naive. Remember that fiasco about a year ago where Congress forgot to continue funding whatever regulatory body is responsible for collecting a not insignificant tax that gets figured directly into ticket price? A few airlines lowered their prices, most of them just continued charging the same price and pocketed the would-be tax.
 
BrutulTM

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Cutlery_sl said:
Companies are sitting on the largest stockpiles of money ever and wages are stagnant. What's the reason they're not paying people more?
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Competition dictates wages. They're not paying people more because it's a seller's market, and people are willing to work for less so there's no reason to pay them more. Corporations aren't in the business of making their employees rich, they are in the business of making their stockholders rich. If they can get quality employees at a lower rate, their incentives dictate that they not pay more.

That's not really relevant though, the money that they are spending on health care is YOUR money. It's just part of the expense of having employees to them. Whether they're writing the check to insurance company or to you is irrelevant from their standpoint. If they thought that they could cut health care benefits and not raise wages then they would have done that already.
 
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