Doctor Who

Cybsled_sl said:

As for the interface, I think there is enough ambiguity there to make one question if it really was Bad Wolf. Bad Wolf is able to do all sorts of time shit, why not integrate itself into The Moment as a form of sentience?

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The interface explicitly explains what it is.

geffe71_sl said:

The only episode the 50th contradicts a lot is End of Time where we see a war torn Gallifrey and the goings on on the last day.

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Actually the commander mentions that he can't get hold of the high council because they are in session and "have plans of their own" (escaping time lock via The Master), so I would think that this episode runs parallel with End of Time.

Well I'm going to be that 13 is all there are, but the Tom Baker doctor at the end is clearly from waaaay past 13. Capaldi as number 13 is the one who finds Gallifrey and unlocks it (or at least unlocks Arcadia in a sort of Krypton / bottled city of Kandor bit) and subsequently gets a new set of lives since it has already been established that the Time Lords can actually do this as they did it for the Master.

I wouldn't make too much of it. They've done The X Doctors shows before -- and they've said stuff like, "All 3 of them!"

And the Tom Baker cameo -- they deliberately avoided explaining it. It was a welcome excuse for Tom Baker to show up and do that crazy-person thing that he did so well. Wasn't there a line in that exchange about, "All the old favorites"? Even in the context of the show, you HAVE to look at that as an extended aside. Broke the shit out of that wall! But they did it with style and it's totally acceptable for Tom Baker.

geffe71_sl said:

Like I said previously, this episode really doesnt change much of the new series. Gallifrey is still "dead/lost" and the doctor "killed" all the time lords, but not in the way it has been established by using the moment. The only episode the 50th contradicts a lot is End of Time where we see a war torn Gallifrey and the goings on on the last day.

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End of Time isn't directly contradicted - that shows the (civilian) High Council and the capital city while DotD shows the (military) High Command and Arcadia (the second city of Gallifrey).

My mistake, I probably didnt hear the part about the high council. i should have locked myself in my room than use the family big screen.

One thing I noticed. They never interviewed McGann, Manning, Ward, Piper, or Tate for the Doctors Revisited or any of the other things in that series of introspectives. I know they couldn't interview Pertwee's other companions, as Caroline John and Lis Sladen passed away in 2007 and 2011. Anyone have any intel on the discrepancies? McGann has been playing 8 since the movie, Manning was in Sarah Jane Adventures, Piper is in the 50th, and Tate as far as I know left on good terms.

Itzena_sl said:

End of Time isn't directly contradicted - that shows the (civilian) High Council and the capital city while DotD shows the (military) High Command and Arcadia (the second city of Gallifrey).

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Yeah. I also noticed the second time through that they basically dismissed whatever they were doing as we'll. I guess when Rassilon comes out with a head of steam they will remove him or otherwise find a way to avert the vote.

Time Lords being future humans kinda works though. They've always been portrayed as an aristocratic and stable society. The Doctor is the lunatic because he actually USES a tardis (for the most part) and it doesn't help that he uses it to help OTHER societies. Most Time Lords seem content to sit on Gallifrey and just muck around doing time-lord stuff. Occasionally when something is going to directly impact them they'll indirectly do something about it. The Doctor is that dumb son of a bitch that just isn't content with sitting on Gallifrey and letting the world go its own way.

That kinda bugged me too watching it. It's like "well, wouldn't at least the soldiers have some super-regen jackjuice? I mean c'mon, what are you saving your full-heal potion FOR if not a full on Dalek invasion?"

But it makes sense. I would have like to have seen a spectacle but have to admit that an epic sci-fi meets saving private ryan beach invasion probably has no place in Dr. Who.

geffe71_sl said:

My mistake, I probably didnt hear the part about the high council. i should have locked myself in my room than use the family big screen.

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yeah same here, i only watched it once and i was just watching for the story and wasnt paying too close attention to the exposition dumps.

It really needs two viewings but the continuity seems to hold up.

Cybsled_sl said:

As for the interface, I think there is enough ambiguity there to make one question if it really was Bad Wolf. Bad Wolf is able to do all sorts of time shit, why not integrate itself into The Moment as a form of sentience?

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They said it suddenly becomes sentient so it could have been during the Bad Wolf incident.

Now this was funny:

BBC iPlayer - The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot

(it will be out there somewhere if you can't get to iPlayer - these are the Doctors who didn't make it into the 50th episode... but keep watching right to the end...)

Watch The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot | Doctor Who TV

This has it without the Non UK bullshit

Baker has some decent looking daughters. And the Georgia stuff was pretty funny, at least they kept with real time and had her carrying and popping out David's son.

Ok, after watching that those remarks Colin Baker made are funny.

The problem with humor that dry is that you can't tell when they're joking. Which is the point, I guess, and what makes it funny.

Fuck you clown doctor, you got me.

I was thinking more about the Bad Wolf weapon connection. I was thinking something like this. First time around the weapon is not sentient. The doctor just goes and grabs the doomsday weapon and sets it off. Then later on during the Bad Wolf incident Rose sees the source of the doctors pain and creates a way to fix it.

ganthorn_sl said:

I was thinking more about the Bad Wolf weapon connection. I was thinking something like this. First time around the weapon is not sentient. The doctor just goes and grabs the doomsday weapon and sets it off. Then later on during the Bad Wolf incident Rose sees the source of the doctors pain and creates a way to fix it.

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Jait_sl said:

As for "The Interface". My theory is that in the original timeline he pressed the button and after the Moment, the Interface went into the TARDIS. Rose later absorbed it and it continued it's job "Ending the Time War". The Doctor even explained that it was the power of a God and should a time lord absorb it, it would become a vengeful god. So why did no Time Lords use it? It didn't exist until the 8th unlocked it. Heart of the TARDIS = rule #1 The Doctor Lies.

In the special, the Interface used Rose Tyler as it's Shell only to discover the Bad Wolf now existed. They are one and the same imo. The ultimate Deus ex Machina that can open Time Locks, zap shit, and mock the Doctor

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I kind of changed my mind, but I think we might be right. It certainly was setup to make people think that. There's definitely more to the Interface than just being a shell of the Bad Wolf. They're connected. I was very glad we didn't see Rose Tyler though. Her and half-human Doctor walked off into the sunset. "No more"


And on a more serious note, someone needs to do a Kickstarter for "The Curator" tv show. Throw 20million at Tom Baker.

Jait_sl said:

I was very glad we didn't see Rose Tyler though. Her and half-human Doctor walked off into the sunset.

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Moffat said in an interview that he wrote it that way. He wanted Piper involved, but did not want her to play Rose, so as to not mess with that scene.Blogtor Who: Steven Moffat interview

It could be nothing but Tom Baker doing scripts from "The Critic"

Strangely Relevant:

I realize some part of it is simply budget constraints plus the inability to adequately visualize the abstract fighting they were actually doing (fighting the same fight over and over in time, causing ripples in reality, etc..). So, they show pewpewlazers and more traditional 'war' for us to understand it.. BUT, in the previous episodes with Rassilon and the high council, that one woman says 'this is merely the furthest edge of the timewar, at the center billions die every day'. We've previously been told other races were involved as well, but if that episode and the high council events are happening at the same time, how is it that all the daleks are at gallifrey but that's not even the center of the war?
I guess the Moment could kill all the daleks everywhere, but why was it necessary to kill the Timelords as well anyway?

Honestly, I don't really care either way, I'm nitpicking at small details that are going to crop up after enough time and different writers on any show. I thought the episode was amazing and am really looking forward to Capaldi. His delivery of that one line was great, and for whatever reason he just seems very interesting in the few interview bits that I've seen. I think he'll be a little more serious, but also very funny in a deadpan way. Like, he'll take obviously wacky things as very normal and simply carry on through without smiling about it. Whereas Matt Smith always seems to be trying to be giddy at everything, which is fine, just different.