IIRC last year every team that started in the losers bracket was knocked out by the second round, so I don't know if it's really a huge deal to have best-of-ones. But even still, scheduling pretty much demands it. Potentially having 14 games to play sequentially per day is much harder to handle than 10, especially since you want to have some degree of commentary before and after the games and you can't immediately swap the teams in and out of the booths.
DOTA 2
- Thread starter Bels_sl
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Anyone know if we are able to switch fantasy players on Wednesday and Thursday? Only half of the field plays on each day, so you might be able to get more games played if you are allowed to manipulate your bench for each day.
Cybsled
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Afaik you can change your bench after the last game of the day through a little before the first match of the next day. Example: Navi plays Weds, but not Thurs. After the Weds matchs and before the Thurs matches, you could swap in IG for instance since they play Thurs.
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I don't think that's entirely true, it's not as volatile as SC2 sure but there are some ways to force a gamble and put even good teams into a bad position. Mostly this is done with extreme push strats, which are akin to 6pool, 4gates and whatever else(I don't really follow SC2 so maybe this shit isn't as viable nowadays but there's still SCV rushes and what not). Pick 2-3 healers, 2-3pushers, lane for 6-8mins rushing arcanes and meka and then 5man. Now the strat can be obvious in the draft and can be countered to an extent(either by picking similar/superior 5man or picking strong sidelane pushers who can splitpush 2lanes while enemy is 5manning and have a couple of long range nukers to delay the pushes), but it is a very stressful situation to have to face this sort of setup that you are not used to play in a bo1 direct elimination match, even if the other team isn't as good individually.
Now if you try to pick a standard draft to beat a team that is way superior in a bo1, it's unlikely there will be an upset, even though it is possible. The better team can always pick accordingly to the possibility of an upset with turtling heroes and a hard carry to guarantee that if shit goes wrong early, they'll still be able to win late.
However the 5man all in push strat can be risky even for the best teams. It doesn't have a high win rate but if you don't handle it correctly you'll lose badly.
That's why I agree they should have tried to fit bo3 from round 2, but I guess they need that break between prelims and real games. I think the idea of removing the bottom 2 teams of each group could fix this by cutting one round entirely from the loser bracket. If you end last or second to last in your group after playing 14games, I think well, that's that, train harder and come back next year.
As for TI2 situation, 2 teams in the LB went past round 2, I looked it up before the tournament started since we had the same argument. Tongfu went up to round 3 before being defeated by DK who had dropped down in round 2, and EHOME went all the way to round 4 before being crushed by iG who had just lost to Na'Vi.
Delly
Trakanon Raider
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I would assume TI2 had this many or at least pretty close. Mine is up to 205 currently.
Personally I like the bo1 and done format. Upsets are entertaining to watch and the major driving force behind the fandom of March Madness in NCAA BB. In eSports fans seem so concerned that the "better" team always wins that tournaments become sterile where you can almost already predict who is going to win, or at least be in the grand finals, before even playing the games. I think volatility is a good thing. It is the same reason I find the post seasons of NBA and MLB for less exciting than NFL. There is a certain amount of tension when you are watching something and it is win or go home.
Delly
Trakanon Raider
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Gotta agree with Tenks. If NaVi or Alliance loses their BO3 and then lose their BO1 to a team that is arguably worse than them its their own fault. When you get to these brackets you have to play consistent.
It isn't like the worst teams in the group stage will all win over better teams anyways, maybe one or two, but even MUFC winning a game isn't an upset unless its over NaVi or Alliance. Everyone else has played mediocre at best which is definitely a level that MUFC can play on.
Edit: Not saying I could play better, or that the games haven't been entertaining. Simply stating NaVi and Alliance's best just shows how mediocre everyone else is.
It isn't like the worst teams in the group stage will all win over better teams anyways, maybe one or two, but even MUFC winning a game isn't an upset unless its over NaVi or Alliance. Everyone else has played mediocre at best which is definitely a level that MUFC can play on.
Edit: Not saying I could play better, or that the games haven't been entertaining. Simply stating NaVi and Alliance's best just shows how mediocre everyone else is.
I'd actually bet on a lot of teams holding their "real" strats until the playoffs start. We'll see what teams do on Wednesday.
It would make sense to operate that way. The group stages was nothing more than simply seeding into the tournament. Like someone said above Alliance can lose 3 games and get out and MUFC can lose 1 game and get out. Dominating the groups doesn't really mean a whole lot.
Intrinsic
Person of Whiteness
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Could anyone share insight toward drafting or banning against Alliance? I ask about them specifically because of their performance coming out of groups and also just because it is probably the team I have watched the most. While the group record doesn't mean all that much because of the points all made in the last two pages Alliance was the only team to go through undefeated.
Are they just playing that well? Did other teams not play up? It seemed they did not bring any strats outside of what they have used throughout the year, teams just can't counter pick / ban against them. Bulldog can play Lone Druid or Prophet maybe better than anyone, but if you ban out his primaries you have neglected to ban out Bat, Wisp, Gyro, etc... (all the regular go to bans that seem to follow).
I dunno, don't get in to the meta as much as you guys so there are things that I overlook. But going 16-0 they either blew their wad early or other teams didn't pull out the anti-Alliance strat and are saving it for the main event. In general it'd just be nice to read more team vs. team (or draft vs. draft) discussion so that I can learn a little more and pick up on some of the meta.
Are they just playing that well? Did other teams not play up? It seemed they did not bring any strats outside of what they have used throughout the year, teams just can't counter pick / ban against them. Bulldog can play Lone Druid or Prophet maybe better than anyone, but if you ban out his primaries you have neglected to ban out Bat, Wisp, Gyro, etc... (all the regular go to bans that seem to follow).
I dunno, don't get in to the meta as much as you guys so there are things that I overlook. But going 16-0 they either blew their wad early or other teams didn't pull out the anti-Alliance strat and are saving it for the main event. In general it'd just be nice to read more team vs. team (or draft vs. draft) discussion so that I can learn a little more and pick up on some of the meta.
S4 said that bulldog can play more than 2 heroes now, so who knows what strats they haven't shown, just like most teams.
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I've never seen so much neckbeard, loser rage before than in this game. Very amusing, actually. Nothing quite like the impotent rage of some autistic dumbfuck railing at you after not knowing the absolute perfect things to do, or where you should be on the map, etcetera. They seem to get more and more mad if you don't say anything back to them but things like "Waah."
I wish there was a setting for, like...don't join any games with people more than X wins, or something.
I wish there was a setting for, like...don't join any games with people more than X wins, or something.
Byr
Potato del Grande
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banning against alliance is difficult because so many of their players play certain heroes so well. To give you an idea, bulldog has a 70%+ win rate as lone druid, Loda has a 70%+ with gyro and akke has a 70%+ with chen. Theres no way you can ban against all their players, so you just end up having to pick your poison and go with it. The problem with it is that some heroes that normally get banned every game, see wisp and batrider, get through the initial drafts. There isnt really a way to ban against the team, you just have to be prepared to face something and go with it.
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If it was that simple, everyone would do it. Bulldog can play a decent BH, Bat or Clockwerk too and those heroes can easily be as impactful as prophet. You definitely want to ban Sylla but Furion is a harder ban and having to pick him means it severely limits your draft too plus you have to pick him early. Even then, it doesn't guarantee you can beat the rest of the team. If anything having a player like Bulldog gives you an inherent draft advantage by eating a ban in the first ban phase everytime, it's especially bad if you're not first pick since it means giving up wisp or bat.
Delly
Trakanon Raider
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IMO you have to be aggressive and not let up. There has been a few games that Alliance should have lost but the or opponent didn't press the, when they had the chance. They don't make many mistakes so you have to be on your A game.
Most importantly teams need to realize that A thinks outside of the box. If you get caught in your happy bubble they will pop the shit out of it, then proceed to rape and pillage. Settling in for the long haul is a nono, which is why the Chinese teams can't handle them.
Most importantly teams need to realize that A thinks outside of the box. If you get caught in your happy bubble they will pop the shit out of it, then proceed to rape and pillage. Settling in for the long haul is a nono, which is why the Chinese teams can't handle them.
Genjiro
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Thats what I said at G1 and some here said it was less about Loda and more about their supports, and I still disagree because it undervalues how much range Loda has. That's what makes him a better carry than say Xboct imo because I've seen Loda execute slow push with PL, aggressive Lifestealer picks, or he can farm up all game with a Spectre or Gyro and execute all of those playstyles at a very high level. He plays a much wider range of carries at a much higher level than most and you could say the same for the supports of Alliance, which is why I think they are so hard to beat and especially draft against. A lot of teams can know how to draft a specific strategy, but if its outside of their comfort zone you see them fail to execute it very well, while Alliance seems to me they can draft almost any kind of lineup and perform to a high level with it. Even most Chinese teams cannot do that as they might be really really good at 4 protect 1 or something but fail when they have to deviate from that.
To me thats what sets Alliance apart, and I'd love to see them win it all this year.
To me thats what sets Alliance apart, and I'd love to see them win it all this year.
Dandain
Trakanon Raider
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Keep in mind making a hero work really does matter in the context of the draft, they are very good at drafting - and S4 does that, loda plays very well, but you don't pick pa and make it work without the rest of your team behind you. Same with spectre - those two heroes require both the right opposing draft and the right team support to make it happen. Its difficult to give one player credit - you can't just pick PA and say it works for loda but not for xboct - navi doesn't draft pa supportive lineups necessarily or even care about picking PA as a hero they want to have carry. But I will say that alliances teamwide versatility and the seemingly very smart drafting + a great combination of knowing when to be patient and knowing when to push makes they extremely dangerous.