DOTA 2

Louis

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Actually haven't seen much Sven in competitive play lately. Chaos knight + wisp, Lifestealer, Batrider, Nyx Assassin have become the must picks pretty much every game now or atleast whichever make it out of the first ban phase.
edit : PL was also a must pick before they banned quelling blade on him in the defense. Don't think you'll see him in EVERY game now.
 

Delly

Trakanon Raider
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Actually haven't seen much Sven in competitive play lately. Chaos knight + wisp, Lifestealer, Batrider, Nyx Assassin have become the must picks pretty much every game now or atleast whichever make it out of the first ban phase.
The meta is funny, depending on the playstyle of the teams and the region you're in totally changes the picks.

Sven was a semi-big pick for the past couple months. Funny enough I've been picking Sven a ton and finally got consistently put into very high ranked games. Semi-pub stomper.
 

Zaphid

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You get xp for any enemy/neutral creep that dies in the xp range, which is quite big. If you are playing some hero more reliant on skills then you don't have to stress too much over gold, just make sure you get boots at reasonable time, but if you are playing a carry, then each kill you don't get hurts, because more items mean you can farm faster. Lane controling through last hitting and denying is usually best practiced in a solo game without any other heroes, because a lot of people don't understand how it works or why it's good, so they will fuck it up for you. Freezing a lane means that you deny and last hit so precisely that the creep waves meet at exact same location and don't move into either tower. It definitely takes some time to practice, but it's not so crucial to the outcome of the game when matched against similar opponents, the creeps run into a tower, die quickly and the lane gets pushed back.

Sven gets eaten by Naix, even more so when you have someone to deliver him, like Bat, Wisp or Storm
 

Elerion

N00b
735
46
Oh yeah, about that Pyros, Meepo is not weak to Cleave/AOE. That's a common misconception. You don't give a shit if all your meepos are at 20% hp as long as none of them die. Meepo is far more vulnerable to powerful single target burst than AOE.

Obvious exception for Earthshaker.
 

Louis

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My internet has been down all week and I haven't played since last Saturday. I feel like a crack head at the moment.
frown.png
 

Big_w_powah

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Just got this; Any advice for a complete newb to this genre of games, and this one in particular?


I tried LoL once, but was so tired of the "fucking newb" shouts in my first match that by the end of it I uninstalled.
 

Delly

Trakanon Raider
2,981
622
Just got this; Any advice for a complete newb to this genre of games, and this one in particular?


I tried LoL once, but was so tired of the "fucking newb" shouts in my first match that by the end of it I uninstalled.
Read what Pyros, Elerion, and I said on this page to Nostrovia.
smile.png


But I will restate what I think is most important. Don't die. Killing isn't as big of a deal as dying.

You're going to get people calling you a noob no matter what, even after hundreds of games that will still happen. Just realize the mistakes you actually do make and try to correct them.
 

Burren

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,092
5,410
Just got this; Any advice for a complete newb to this genre of games, and this one in particular?


I tried LoL once, but was so tired of the "fucking newb" shouts in my first match that by the end of it I uninstalled.
Don't be afraid to create a game using bots only as well. While not perfect, they are tough for a newer player, but make sure they are on "insane" difficulty, to better mimic the real play later on. Even worth it to just play against bots for 10 minutes to get last hit timing down, restart, go again.
 

Zaphid

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Don't be afraid to create a game using bots only as well. While not perfect, they are tough for a newer player, but make sure they are on "insane" difficulty, to better mimic the real play later on. Even worth it to just play against bots for 10 minutes to get last hit timing down, restart, go again.
I think medium or hard bots pose enough of a challenge to begin with.
 

crucial_sl

shitlord
8
0
Yeah no shit, the whole cast poof and while poof is casting blink on on main meepo and fucking one shot someone is just ridiculous. There is literally nothing you can do about it if you're in blink dagger range.
There's tons of abilities like that, though. You just have to be aware and get wards.

Lina with a blink and scepter can do twice as much damage with her combo. But both heroes are easily countered with a BKB or wards. Not to mention that combo from Meepo is not at all easy to do and not reliable. If you move too much after he started the combo he cant blink far enough and won't hit you
 

LulzSect

Well-Known Memer
<Banned>
2,714
3,283
Razor is fun to play and the model is awesome. LoL looks like candy play time anime battle compared to DoTA 2 bros. Really enjoying getting into this game. It may be the last bastion of gaming greatness.
 

crucial_sl

shitlord
8
0
It seems like there's a lot of new players here, and as someone who has been playing for 8 years now I'd like to offer a tip that I think benefits everyone in the long run:

Play every hero.

Random every game, or play the new Least Played mode. While the heroes may seem complicated, most of the skill of DOTA is teamwork and communication. People often think they sucked with a hero, and maybe they did, but often it was just lack of communication and teamwork. The most common cause of deaths is from not understanding the enemy hero. That is why you must play all heroes. Knowing the ranges on stuns and abilities, the combos and weaknesses of other heroes is probably more important than mastering the nuances of your hero.

People coming from LoL might think this sounds weird. There is no concept of a 'main' here. Everyone plays a wide selection of heroes, because heroes can be countered or your favorite hero might not mesh with the other heroes picked. Also I don't think you have to know every hero in League, I've played a few hundred games of that and none of the heroes really have anything too punishing to inflict on you for your ignorance. In DOTA if you don't understand how something works you might just die.

I highly recommend starting this way. Also, if someone says something rude to you just mute them. Don't give second chances, just mute them for your own peace of mind.
 

Louis

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Looking forward to the least played mode. There's probably about 10 heroes I generally just completely avoid just in fear of sucking with them and fucking the game up. Atleast in that mode most people will be in the same situation.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
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Play every hero.
Random every game, or play the new Least Played mode.
I disagree with this tip for one main reason, there is so many things to learn when you start a game of Dota that just knowing what your own hero does, the items that you may or may not build depending on lane, and enemy team comp just to start. This doesn't even begin to touch the necessity of map awareness, having a tp, knowing how the runes work, how the jungle spawns, stacking, creep pulling, denial. I find that if you get a set of heroes you really enjoy that you ultimately will learn how heroes you don't play kill you and because you're familiar with this small set of heroes you begin to formulate specific rules for both specific matchups and general conceptual ones. I.E. When you lane against any lane with a double and or set up stun combination what do you do to avoid being killed? What level is your hero more powerful or less powerful than your lane opponents? Some lanes have incredible level 1 spells, Venomancer + Juggernaut is one such lane, and very few lanes stack up to the pure kill potential at level 1 that that combination of heroes has. Other lanes reach their kill power at 2, or 3 or 6 (ultimates). By playing one hero or a small set you begin to learn how you fail. There are many heroes that I have less than 5 games played on even though I have played thousands, and those heroes don't surprise me when I play them. I learned their toolkit by both killing them and being killed by them, but not by playing them. Conceptual questions about how precisely certain skills work can be learned by an in-depth look at both tool-tip examples and a quick Google search if necessary.

I believe one of the most difficult aspects of Dota, one that league specifically does not prepare you for, is the item shop(s) all 6 on the map, the courier and its importance, and then finally, the big one is the item choices themselves. One thing that never happens in league is gathering an inventory of items that have active use extremely powerful skills (each clicky is another skill to manage, potentially up to 5 items in your inventory could have active uses. There are very specific counter items or momentum items.

This is why I would also suggest lich as the best starter hero in the game, he has a simple nuke, and a skill shot nuke (to maximize its potential), a creep deny mana mechanic. You build Tranquil boots (heal) and a mek and you can now practice using items from your inventory without the stress of 4 active usable skills and he is more forgiving in lane when harassed because with just the tranquil boots you can regen all your health and mana without pond trips.

TLDR; Learning heroes you don't play is very possible and my opinion more optimal on a hero you play well. Skills you don't understand, look them up post game, or take a moment to check out the learn tab in the interface while you're respawning.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,083
2,277
Oh yeah, about that Pyros, Meepo is not weak to Cleave/AOE. That's a common misconception. You don't give a shit if all your meepos are at 20% hp as long as none of them die. Meepo is far more vulnerable to powerful single target burst than AOE.

Obvious exception for Earthshaker.
I disagree. I mean I see what you're saying, but if all your meepos are low health, that means the enemy team can nuke any of them equally without fucking up. If all your meepos are down, you can't just run away with the one that's low and keep fighting, you have to run all of them or keep fighting with low hp. If all your meepos are low, you're even more exposed to random aoes due to stacking and control issues.

Obviously Cleave isn't like the anti meepo mechanic, single target burst is, but cleave makes it easier to coordinate, and it literally comes at NO COST. That's the thing really, at least for sven or anyone with Magnus in the team, Cleave is free. It lets you attack any meepo and hit all the meepos(assuming they're packed, or in the case of sven assuming they're anywhere within a 5000radius range it seems ^^). This is also important as a good meepo player when attacking a carry will rotate the meepos out, kinda like SC2 zergling battles where you pull your low hp zergling back to force retargetting on the full health zergling, and maybe run back in after. Cleave doesn't care so much about that because all your meepos are losing health at the same speed, more or less, so pulling one doesn't help when all the others are low.

The issue here is the power of the cleave. If it's like some guy hitting for 100 with a bfury, you don't give a fuck cause your meepos have 2k health and the cleave is like a faint fart. If it's Sven with God's strength on and his massive aoe 70%cleave, it is an issue because going in even with a large amount of meepos means you'll take a bunch of damage. Also he stuns all your meepos and that sucks. Your best bet at this point is to chain net Sven and ignore him, which is a fairly valid tactic but you better pray there's no a strong aoe cc coming.

So yeah, I wouldn't say, counter meepo by making a bfury. But if you happen to have a natural cleave(sven or magnus) then it's an advantage, not a decisive one and one not worth of a counterpick, but still an advantage. At the end of the day though, pick Naix or Void and I think you can bury the meepo, especially if you don't let him do whatever the fuck he wants like by running an agressive trilane on his lane. Meepo is a shitty laner and a shitty low lvl hero. Ward the jungle, contests his lane, stunt his growth and he won't do anything remotely useful that another hero couldn't do. Personally I think Naga Siren fits his role to an extent and is a lot stronger all game. She doesn't peak as fast sure but her illusion flash farm is pretty scary if you let her and her ultimate has way more uses than what meepo brings in a teamfight past his peak time. And she's a lot more useful if she gets shutdown.
 

crucial_sl

shitlord
8
0
I disagree with this tip for one main reason, there is so many things to learn when you start a game of Dota that just knowing what your own hero does, the items that you may or may not build depending on lane, and enemy team comp just to start. This doesn't even begin to touch the necessity of map awareness, having a tp, knowing how the runes work, how the jungle spawns, stacking, creep pulling, denial. I find that if you get a set of heroes you really enjoy that you ultimately will learn how heroes you don't play kill you and because you're familiar with this small set of heroes you begin to formulate specific rules for both specific matchups and general conceptual ones. I.E. When you lane against any lane with a double and or set up stun combination what do you do to avoid being killed? What level is your hero more powerful or less powerful than your lane opponents? Some lanes have incredible level 1 spells, Venomancer + Juggernaut is one such lane, and very few lanes stack up to the pure kill potential at level 1 that that combination of heroes has. Other lanes reach their kill power at 2, or 3 or 6 (ultimates). By playing one hero or a small set you begin to learn how you fail. There are many heroes that I have less than 5 games played on even though I have played thousands, and those heroes don't surprise me when I play them. I learned their toolkit by both killing them and being killed by them, but not by playing them. Conceptual questions about how precisely certain skills work can be learned by an in-depth look at both tool-tip examples and a quick Google search if necessary.

I believe one of the most difficult aspects of Dota, one that league specifically does not prepare you for, is the item shop(s) all 6 on the map, the courier and its importance, and then finally, the big one is the item choices themselves. One thing that never happens in league is gathering an inventory of items that have active use extremely powerful skills (each clicky is another skill to manage, potentially up to 5 items in your inventory could have active uses. There are very specific counter items or momentum items.

This is why I would also suggest lich as the best starter hero in the game, he has a simple nuke, and a skill shot nuke (to maximize its potential), a creep deny mana mechanic. You build Tranquil boots (heal) and a mek and you can now practice using items from your inventory without the stress of 4 active usable skills and he is more forgiving in lane when harassed because with just the tranquil boots you can regen all your health and mana without pond trips.

TLDR; Learning heroes you don't play is very possible and my opinion more optimal on a hero you play well. Skills you don't understand, look them up post game, or take a moment to check out the learn tab in the interface while you're respawning.
I think we agree about what's valuable, but I think that playing a wide variety of heroes gives you a much stronger base. It is going to be a bit rougher in the beginning, but overall I think after you're past the early learning curves of the game I think you're much better off. You can read all day about the specifics of abilities but until you use them you really don't know their strengths and weaknesses. Each person is different, and my approach will have a slightly steeper initial learning curve, but I think it's way better in the long run.

It should be noted that if you are new in the sense that you've never played DOTA, HON or LoL then I suggest you play bot games until you feel competent.