DOTA 2

Lunis

Lunis

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,333
1,601
PL is easily counterable. He needs 3 core items to be big enough to do all the annoying things people are mentioning. A team of early and mid game heroes can take a rax around the 23m mark; even in the super late game he can be beaten by heroes like Gyro or Void. Like always, it all comes down to execution. If you look at a lot of the recent games, other carries have just as good a chance at being picked as PL because teams are focusing more on the mid game.
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

Blackwing Lair Raider
7,489
107
No dude, you're missing the point, because he is broken he was able to get to that point. He's not broken when he can solo a team with a full inventory ANY carry can do that. He's broken because with diffusal and brown boots he can easily do fuck loads of damage and GET to that point. You can keep him stuck in his base but he can still easily farm a lane or jungle and if you don't 5 man his illusions you'll lose all your mana and half your HP. I'm not even sure if you actually think he isn't broken or you just don't know much about the game.

Luxer_sl said:
PL is easily counterable. He needs 3 core items to be big enough to do all the annoying things people are mentioning. A team of early and mid game heroes can take a rax around the 23m mark; even in the super late game he can be beaten by heroes like Gyro or Void. Like always, it all comes down to execution. If you look at a lot of the recent games, other carries have just as good a chance at being picked as PL because teams are focusing more on the mid game.
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We're not talking professional games here, where I can go captains mode and pick my team. I play with the tinker that has brown boots still 40 minutes in to the game and the OD that goes aghs first. Either way, NO OTHER HERO in the game has an easy time as he has when carrying.
 
Jozu

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,986
6,295
PL is OP, period. People who try to defend him either play him or have a bud that plays him. That or they are just fucking delusional. Its no secret when people are using the same method with him every game (look u his win% wth diffusal etc).

Really a stupid hero and wouldnt care if they got rid of him altogether lol.
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

Blackwing Lair Raider
7,489
107
Played him before the buff. He was perfectly fine then, the buff wasn't required. Just put him back to the way he was.
 
M

MaulNutz_sl

shitlord
182
3
Carries played by competent players in pubs are overpowered, news at 11.
Dota is not balanced around pub play, deal with it. If the PL had been killed that many times in a pro game they might as well call GG because they will know how to push that advantage. Pubs will not know how to push the advantage because they have no coordination. Would you have it any other way? If not maybe you should go play Call of Duty.
PL is probably SLIGHTLY too powerful in pro play, this does not mean there is a huge imbalance in the game.
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

Blackwing Lair Raider
7,489
107
The hero's broken in pub/pro play, there's a reason professionals hate him, there's a reason casters hate him, there's a reason every pub player hates him, there's a reason his nick name is cancer lancer. It's because he's broken and ruining an otherwise good game.
 
Elerion

Elerion

N00b
735
46
I'm not a big fan of PL (entertainment wise) because he's not a very interactive hero post the early lane phase. Like AM and prenerf Lycan he starts spiraling out of control if you let him out of your sight in the mid-game, and he requires a coordinated effort to counter. Unless the other team has an early push strategy, PL makes the entire game revolve around him, making the game less dynamic and interesting. For those reasons I wouldn't mind seeing a nerf.

That said, he's very strong, but notthatbroken. He has a 58% win rate in pro dota since early February, less than NP, Ench, Chen, KOTL, Puck, Nyx, Wisp Luna, Mag and Gyro (and lots of rarely played heroes). He has a 55% pub win rate this month, less than Warlock, Zeus, Drow, KOTL, Jakiro, Cent, Necro, Lich and Nyx. He's considerably less broken in pro play than Morph was during TI2, and considerably less broken in pubs than pre-nerf Lycan and Drow.
 
Dandain

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
The one thing PL does in pub Dota is that he inflates the skill of the player strictly from a CS/GPM standpoint because in a sense PL passively farms and last hits without having any skill to understand why, Waves of illusions get cs if you just send them. There is no timing last hits required on PL and he will still outfarm a carry who is trying to maximize last hits across a wide swath of player skill. The lower the bracket the more obscene PL becomes. That's not to say he isn't strong in vhigh but the higher up the ladder you go the more coordinated players are generally at dealing with difficult to handle late game carries like void, AM, PL. Lower skill games often go very long regardless of composition, and in those games PL just gets more GPM for the average player than any other carry.
 
Penance

Penance

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,821
11,631
PL does has stupidly high stat gain, wtf.

Still, I haven't had a game where we lost solely because of a PL. Just like I haven't lost games solely because of Drow. If you killed PL 7 times before 20 minute mark and you team wasn't pushing, you should have continued killing him while your team didn't do jack shit. I know it's impossible some times to escape the inevitability of a lost, but I very rarely feel like it's because of one hero.
 
Jozu

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,986
6,295
Its hard for me to comment as I havent played the game long and still not that good, but it seems like coordination is the huge problem for low tier games. I have won quite a few games I had no business winning because the other teams fed Huskar is solo laning top while the rest of his team gets raped and their base gets pushed for a GG.

As far as PL goes, I wouldnt say he is lolbroken, ( I have seen people use him and not have the huge success others have, including myself) but he is definitely a little fucked up with that agi gain as well as juxtapose. A good PL told me "EVER HEARD OF A BATTLEFURY? LOL" when I cried he was OP. A retarded statement to be sure, but it just goes to show you how biased people are if they play the fucked up hero.

I bet if some of the people here had to play a competent PL EVERY game, you would quickly back off of any sentiments about him being balanced.
 
Nirgon

Nirgon

Log Wizard
15,062
24,764
Never had trouble laning with my buddy against PL as long as we used dust and played a strong duo lane.

Sven + Lion is good for hurtin em.
 
A

an accordion_sl

shitlord
2,162
8
Nirgon_sl said:
Never had trouble laning with my buddy against PL as long as we used dust and played a strong duo lane.

Sven + Lion is good for hurtin em.
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That sounds so mediocre vs pl, who is pl's lane partner(s) in this scenario?


I've had games where players do a dazzle/axe/venge trilane to creep skip and deny me any cs and still end up winning the game with diffusal/heart by around minute 35.
 
Penance

Penance

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,821
11,631
He's definitely not balanced. But he doesn't make me rage quit the whole game. I find improving doesn't lend well to raging and vice versa.

Agi gain needs a nerf for sure. Also I was toying around with the idea of illusions giving gold but thats kinda dumb on two fronts.

O well, currently playing a lot of SC2, hoping when I get back into Dota my Chen/Enchantress game will have improved a lot. Shit I might even pick Meepo!
 
Elerion

Elerion

N00b
735
46
Jozu_sl said:
As far as PL goes, I wouldnt say he is lolbroken, ( I have seen people use him and not have the huge success others have, including myself) but he is definitely a little fucked up with that agi gain as well as juxtapose. A good PL told me "EVER HEARD OF A BATTLEFURY? LOL" when I cried he was OP. A retarded statement to be sure, but it just goes to show you how biased people are if they play the fucked up hero.

I bet if some of the people here had to play a competent PL EVERY game, you would quickly back off of any sentiments about him being balanced.
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Listen, if you are making statements along the lines of "people who play that hero" you're not quite at the level where you can make qualified statements about hero balance.
 
Jozu

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,986
6,295
Elerion_sl said:
Listen, if you are making statements along the lines of "people who play that hero" you're not quite at the level where you can make qualified statements about hero balance.
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? I never once said I was at any particular level. How hard is it to understand that PL needs a slight nerf? About as hard as realizing someone is biased if they think otherwise.
 
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