DOTA 2

Pyros

Pyros

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Agonizing the Bait Master_sl said:
Sudeko is right though. People were fucking crazy about drow but pl is ok?
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PL not close to what Drow was before the nerfs. PL has a lot of dmg once he gets a diffusal? Drow had high dmg just from herpderping up to lvl 6. What's that, PL pushes 2lanes at the same time in endgame with an unstoppable push? Drow pushes all your lanes all the time starting lvl 1 if she wants, even when she's sitting in the fountain. Drow was dumb as fuck. Not that PL shouldn't be nerfed, but the scale is different. The buffed drow was probably the most broken hero Icefrog made in the recent years, it was just dumb as shit, not because the hero was too strong, too tanky, scaled too well, did something or other, but simply because by being alive, she pushed like your creeps were getting hit repeatedly by prophet ults every wave. Oh and she also made catapults do like 150dmg per hit so as soon as one entered tower range undefended, that tower was as good as dead. That aura was so fucking stupid.
 
C

calla_sl

shitlord
202
0
Dandain_sl said:
Sniper is such a shit hero, but like any carry, with infinite time and space to farm he will kill your team. If you understand that the game can't go for 30-40-50 minutes then pick heroes that win fast and early against the carry heavy picking that happens in low tier. If you understand that aspect of dota, you should be able to climb out of low tier with simple notions like 5 man pushing against an opposing team with 3 hard melee carries. Just push early. Go get towers get more items and abuse the power of the heroes you have vs their heroes.
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this is too rational for most people in the lower bracket. hence once youre stuck, welcome to dota hell
 
Penance

Penance

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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These OP hero threads are fucking hilarious. Speaking of raging, I lost another game to a team who couldn't push 5 man. And when we did decide to group naix had gotten 4 items, gg. I mean, I almost blame myself with a score with AA of 17 in something but I literally had to go solo duo gank with disruptor the whole game and suck up kills.

O yea, was playing with a NS who didn't know how to "use" or let alone "pick up" Aegis. Fuck my life
 
Elerion

Elerion

N00b
735
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calla_sl said:
this is too rational for most people in the lower bracket. hence once youre stuck, welcome to dota hell
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If you are better than the people you are getting matched with, you will win more than you lose over time, and then get matched with better players. If you don't win more than you lose, you're no better than the people you are getting matched with.

If you are matched below your level and really want to increase your rating, play AP. It's the least fun mode with the biggest dickheads, but it's also the least random. Pick whatever your team needs if there's a glaring hole in your lineup, otherwise pick a pub stomper.
 
Penance

Penance

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Should they add smart casting to this game?

EDIT: Steam/Valve have some of the best servers known in the gaming community. Why does it take forever to DL match IDs and navigate the store?
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Penance_sl said:
Should they add smart casting to this game?
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You can use scripts to do it. Funny enough when I started playing this early on, I had been playing LoL for a long time and I was really annoyed at the lack of smartcasting for certain heroes and shit. However after playing it for a few months, when someone released the script to add smartcasting, I spent a while tinkering with it to make it fit my needs, mostly individual smartcasting settings with one button to turn it on/off per key since I never liked having everything on smartcasting, just direct targetted spells, then I didn't bother using it cause I had gotten used to targetting by hand again and it didn't feel that useful.
 
Penance

Penance

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Is that tournament legal? Not that I'll ever end up in a tournie, I just like to conform myself to some standards.
 
Elerion

Elerion

N00b
735
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Online tournaments - Pretty sure it would be legal. I know Admiral Bulldog played a few tournaments with the rangefinder console command (Shows a ring around your character at X range, can keybind it to toggle the range on the fly for various uses), possibly still does.
LAN tournaments - Generally the same as online. In some cases it could possibly be banned, but that's more of a logistics issue with custom configs.

There's really no outspoken public opinion against scripts and custom configs. None of them give a serious advantage.

Source engine games (and games in the old HL engine) have traditionally allowed most client side console commands in tournaments. The DotA 1 scene was also pretty lax about using WarKeys and its like to create scripts/binds.
 
O

Obtenor_sl

shitlord
483
0
Here's a question for those who say "win the game early":

How do you deal with Towers? Lane creeps won't start getting permanent stat bonuses until 7:30 so they die rather easily.

What's an "early win" ? 20? 30? What's the average level at 20min? 12?

Not to mention when you're already at T3 they hit for 122-182 have 1600 health and are (technically) surrounded by the enemy team heroes.
 
Chris

Chris

Potato del Grande
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I'm finding League of Legends really fun, maybe you would all be less mad playing that?
 
Burren

Burren

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Pushing a tower in the first 1-3 minutes is fairly simple. Chen, Enchant, Nature's Prophet, Enigma, etc. etc. all have their own creeps that can make that process simple. If you come into a lane with 3 heroes, of which some where those mentioned, the other team likely won't, or can't react and that's at least the first tower down, usually 2, inside of the first few minutes of the game.

Add in a hero with an aura, or someone who bought a ring of Basilias for this purpose and it's even simpler.

There's a lot to this game that doesn't seem apparent on the surface, but is there. Watching high level tournies actually helps you learn as well because you can see what some of the pros have discovered and done.
 
Elerion

Elerion

N00b
735
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Obtenor_sl said:
Here's a question for those who say "win the game early":

How do you deal with Towers? Lane creeps won't start getting permanent stat bonuses until 7:30 so they die rather easily.

What's an "early win" ? 20? 30? What's the average level at 20min? 12?

Not to mention when you're already at T3 they hit for 122-182 have 1600 health and are (technically) surrounded by the enemy team heroes.
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There are two answers to this question. One is the pure pushing approach where you pick heroes that are excellent at pushing towers early and use that to brute force towers with up to 5 heroes. These are typically heroes with summons (to soak and deal damage), heals and mana restores (to keep the momentum up), good early game AOE (to clear enemy creeps) and early game team fight presence (to deter the enemy from just attacking and wiping you). These teams can potentially win at ~20 minutes.

The other way is to delay the mid-late game by aggressively ganking their carries and/or forcing early team fights. Once you have a numerical advantage from a successful gank/fight, you push a tower. This can be done with any set of heroes, and doesn't really require the entire team to cooperate. This approach rarely wins before 30 minutes, but the timer doesn't really matter. The point is that you want to win before their carry can get fat, and ganking him accomplishes that.

The latter is usually the way to do it in pubs, since you can't count on 4 randoms to follow your orders for a pure push strategy. It's also much less "all in" since the ganks and early towers will give you a gold/xp advantage that can carry you to a late game win if necessary, and your team isn't entirely made up of early-mid game heroes.
 
T

TecKnoe

Molten Core Raider
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Does anyone collect the chests that drop? im never going to buy keys so if anyone wants to throw me some duplicates they got for chests or w/e i dont really care just msg me here or in game.
 
Dandain

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
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Obtenor_sl said:
Here's a question for those who say "win the game early":

How do you deal with Towers? Lane creeps won't start getting permanent stat bonuses until 7:30 so they die rather easily.

What's an "early win" ? 20? 30? What's the average level at 20min? 12?

Not to mention when you're already at T3 they hit for 122-182 have 1600 health and are (technically) surrounded by the enemy team heroes.
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Key thing about dota heroes, especially compared to league if you are familiar with that game, is that dota has a far more dynamic hero power scale. In league any picked ranged AD with a full inventory performs very close to the others ads, while there is agreed upon hierarchy in league the variance between the AD's is small when compared to dota. Simple things like perhaps PL / AM / Void - these are power monsters with full slots, then maybe naix, lone druid, etc. Down to juggernaut, storm spirit, etc. This list is not meant to be comprehensive but illustrate a point.

The opposing team has an AM you have a jug? you have to win first, if the game drags on and the am isn't stupid you will eventually lose to him. In vhigh that timing might be 30/35 minutes, in normal that might be 60 minutes, but the point is if that hero gets enough farm he will dominate the end of the game. Likewise those heroes are weak early, offer generally very little damage, no teamfight, they die fast, and if you stack up your team against theirs 5v5 you should be able to calculate a relative power comparison.

Simply put, you just have to understand the idea of powercurves, for spell casting heroes that curve is generally based on level, for carries its more dependent on farm. Heroes like Shadow Shaman, Disrupter - they have extremely strong level 6s, but very weak level 1's when you stack them up against veno, juggernaut, shadow demon, leshrac etc. Winning the game early is based on an understanding of your team composition vs theirs and when your powerspike happens.

The easiest most obvious, and stupid example would to be pick any 5 melee carries, put them on a team, then put them up against leshrac disrupter lina shadowdemon and chen, now imagine a lvl 6 teamfight, or a lvl 3 teamfight, or a level 16 teamfight. There is no way the 5 carries should ever win, the only way they win is if the other team dicks around for long enough to lose to the hero scaling of the melee carries and does not go for the throat from minute 5.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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I think at 16 5 carries could win against that setup even without items. Key carries would be Void for chronosphere and Gyro for Call Down, then like medusa with snake+splitshot or something like that, and kill them during chrono.

But yeah it's a lot less obvious in lol, everyone gets a lot of xp all the time, everyone gets some gold all the time(gold/5 runes and items) and even at max the differences aren't too big, especially with the concept of AP and AP carries.

For the other questions, you get towers early with pushing heroes(mostly heroes that create other units to tank) and a basilius, as well as 3 to 4 people in the lane(trilane or mid comes to gank, kill the guy in the lane then rape his tower). Generally especially at lower skill level, just killing whoever is on that lane guarantees a tower because people don't use TPs to defend.

Early win would be 30mins. It's very rare to get a win earlier than that unless enemy team logs off/stops playing, because pushing in the base requires a certain amount of items, levels or specific heroes, and it's fairly easy to turtle with the high ground advantage. Average level depends on role and hero, it's impossible to define such a value in general and even case by case it'll depend on the flow of the game and the adopted strat. Guess anywhere between 8 and 14 would good.

To get the base towers, you'll want to take the teamfight under the enemy tower. You need good initiation and teamfight items like armor aura(AC, vlad or at least basilius/aquila), meka for healing, pipe for magic absorb etc. If you can't initiate, try to do chip dmg at the tower when the creeps come in. If that's impossible(multiple ranged aoe nukers or kotl on defense) then split push different lanes, make sure to farm efficiently, go grab roshan(but put a ward on the path to see if the enemy comes and take the fight there) and so on. But if you absolutely can't get in, then just go farm for a bit more. Chances are if you're at the base at 20-30mins, enemy is getting raped hard and their carries will need more time to recover, so just farm up for a bit, then take the fight once you have the right items.
 
O

Obtenor_sl

shitlord
483
0
What you've all said makes a lot of sense but my main issue is when it comes to this:

and it's fairly easy to turtle with the high ground advantage.
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T3 is a PITA at 20 min specially when there's turtling, practically near impossible to get (at least on pubs) unless you got someone that'll break the turtle (like a Pudge hooking someone out or a kotl spamming Q into their base) in the meantime you got their late game carry eating your creeps that are suiciding on T3. I've been on a lot of games were we don't have a hard late game carry (like Jug for example), we have an awesome early mid game pushing we got all their towers but T3 and we just can't break the turtle, get pushed back, their carry eats those creeps, gets more powerful and then slowly they start pushing back until faceroll.
 
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