DOTA 2

I think that's part of the reason why I like dota, similar to SC2: If you are not playing to win, you might as well not bother. Most of my pubs can call gg prematurely, but they will continue to fight until the last moment.

Fuck quitters.

DeLLy_sl said:

Agree mostly Dandain, except this is pubs a.k.a. real people who don't give a fuck. People will just abandon games and completely ruin them. That is why concede can be good if done correctly.

Not sure if you read what I posted about it, but the reason concede is good at around the 40 minute mark is because A. It allows the games to play out, by 40 mins most games are won or close, if they're close then most of the time concede will never happen. B. Some teams just farm the game, I had an example of Slarder who wouldn't push and farmed FOUR Battle Furies (For reals). My team defended, but admitted the game was over. So we wasted time just giving up kills. C. A concede option around 40-45 minutes could actually let games play out instead of people abandoning them. If I'm 25 minutes into a game and the game is absolute shit, I might just abandon it, BUT if I know I can concede in 15 minutes I would just stay and play. Hell, maybe we could even turn the game around and win. So instead of an abandon, it turns into either a concede or win or they push before 40 minutes and we lose? Sounds great to me.

Most of my games seem to end between 30-45 minutes, so I doubt I would barely use it except on rare occasion.

To say its completely bad is just silly.

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Two things, first people who abandon games regularly get put into a queue with leavers, you will not play with them during their cumulative increasing abandon time if they repeat offend. And the higher away you get from being in the lowest matchmaking, these people will never play a game with you if they abandon and leave and just remake steam accounts in the FTP format, that's way too much work for me, but if you're interested enough in playing dota you won't spend long in their company.

Second, the amount of games where someone draws it out like that slardar is small, besides just 5 man mid maybe you win maybe you just lose faster - by playing the game in a positive way even if futile. A report function should serve as the recourse in such a situation to dish out the appropriate reprimand for that specific kind of griefing, there are better solutions than a surrender function, all that means is people start thinking in terms of the timer "Well its only 10 minutes till surrender, oh its only 5 minutes." That kind of attitude completely pollutes the game in far more situations than the one you are suggesting it addresses. Someone who decides the game is over at 15 minutes has 25 minutes to bitch
then spam surrender if the game goes on that long - the timer is no good.

Dandain_sl said:

Two things, first people who abandon games regularly get put into a queue with leavers, you will not play with them during their cumulative increasing abandon time if they repeat offend. And the higher away you get from being in the lowest matchmaking, these people will never play a game with you if they abandon and leave and just remake steam accounts in the FTP format, that's way too much work for me, but if you're interested enough in playing dota you won't spend long in their company.

Second, the amount of games where someone draws it out like that slardar is small, besides just 5 man mid maybe you win maybe you just lose faster - by playing the game in a positive way even if futile. A report function should serve as the recourse in such a situation to dish out the appropriate reprimand for that specific kind of griefing, there are better solutions than a surrender function, all that means is people start thinking in terms of the timer "Well its only 10 minutes till surrender, oh its only 5 minutes." That kind of attitude completely pollutes the game in far more situations than the one you are suggesting it addresses. Someone who decides the game is over at 15 minutes has 25 minutes to bitch
then spam surrender if the game goes on that long - the timer is no good.

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Pretty much, Valve even made sure you get same amount of points win or lose, just based on the length of the game. I can't remember the last time when the other team dragged on with actually closing the game, even if we called the gg after losing rax and being down like 20 kills, they went back, got rosh, healed up and then razed the rest of our base, but that's not dragging it out, that's playing safe and sometimes they get sloppy, get picked off and we can make a game out of it with good pushers.

Ok I have started to get into this game and although it is fun, the REALLY need an option where only people in your country can join. There are servers all over the world but it seams like everyone plays on the US West or East and I am always stuck with at least one or two people who don't speak any English. Go ahead and allow them to join the US servers but allow me to only join ques that filter by IP adress or something. The spanish or Russian or whatever they are people are fucking terrible and feed like a bitch.

Wuyley_sl said:

Ok I have started to get into this game and although it is fun, the REALLY need an option where only people in your country can join. There are servers all over the world but it seams like everyone plays on the US West or East and I am always stuck with at least one or two people who don't speak any English. Go ahead and allow them to join the US servers but allow me to only join ques that filter by IP adress or something. The spanish or Russian or whatever they are people are fucking terrible and feed like a bitch.

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GL with that, pretty much one of those 50/50 votes like Concede. It absolutely ruins teamplay which the game is all about if there isn't 2 way communication, but you'll find people who find ways to make it sound like that is ONLY a bad thing, just like concede as well.

DeLLy_sl said:

GL with that, pretty much one of those 50/50 votes like Concede. It absolutely ruins teamplay which the game is all about if there isn't 2 way communication, but you'll find people who find ways to make it sound like that is ONLY a bad thing, just like concede as well.

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I guess that's your passive aggressive counter argument.

To Wuyley
The game has built in pings and map drawing, no it isn't as good as having a team that both can and wants to communicate, language has little to do with someone wanting to work with the team and not. There is a wheel. You'll never get games in dota with 100% same language games, its just not possible. Not everyone in each country speaks the same or limited languages, you can't filter by IP or anything else like that. Players just have to filter themselves, I do think you'll find if you use the tools in the game you'll get teamwork, no it isn't like playing in a 5 man stack with voice coms but you're not going to feel like doing that every time you play necessarily either.

I am not saying that you have to force people to play on their own regional servers, only that you allow me to check an option or something that will only put me in ques with other like minded people who only want to play with region "x". They already have your IP i assume. How hard is it to make it so only people in a certain region can "see" each other for PUG games.

DeLLy_sl said:

Agree mostly Dandain, except this is pubs a.k.a. real people who don't give a fuck. People will just abandon games and completely ruin them. That is why concede can be good if done correctly.

Not sure if you read what I posted about it, but the reason concede is good at around the 40 minute mark is because A. It allows the games to play out, by 40 mins most games are won or close, if they're close then most of the time concede will never happen. B. Some teams just farm the game, I had an example of Slarder who wouldn't push and farmed FOUR Battle Furies (For reals). My team defended, but admitted the game was over. So we wasted time just giving up kills. C. A concede option around 40-45 minutes could actually let games play out instead of people abandoning them. If I'm 25 minutes into a game and the game is absolute shit, I might just abandon it, BUT if I know I can concede in 15 minutes I would just stay and play. Hell, maybe we could even turn the game around and win. So instead of an abandon, it turns into either a concede or win or they push before 40 minutes and we lose? Sounds great to me.

Most of my games seem to end between 30-45 minutes, so I doubt I would barely use it except on rare occasion.

To say its completely bad is just silly.

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In a game where one team dominates, turnarounds are actually more likely 45 minutes into the game than they are 20 minutes into the game. Respawn times get so long, and hero power so high relative to creeps/towers, that ganking 2 heroes without buyback at that point will generally allow you to push barracks.

If you are far behind in a game like that, buy smoke and get your team to go ganking as 5. You may not be successful, but you're more likely to get kills that way than if you let them play their game. It's also more fun. Worst case, you die and the opponents (or their creeps) push and bring the game to a close.

Sure, it's technically possible for a team to fountain lock you with no barracks killed, thus prolonging the game indefinitely, but I've had that happen like twice in 500 games. When that happens, either eat the abandon or just Alt-TAB and surf Rerolled or something until it ends.

In HoN, people with a bad start to the game would frequently semi-AFK and pester their team until everyone conceded, even if the game was far from over. I'll take the occasional prolonged game if it means avoiding those idiots.

Yeah I'm done with the concede argument, so this is my last post about it, since I'm the only one on these forums fighting for it. No one is even pointing the fact out that I have said the concede option needs to be a relatively long time into the game (like 40 mins) which I would take a guess most games ends before or right around that time anyways. It would rarely get used.

Dandain, say what you want, but you made some dumb statements that I didn't even want to respond with another full write up. The abandon comment about people going in the low priority was dumb. People don't get low priority if they leave a few games early out of their hundreds of games. I have 5 abandons in 700ish games, how many others are like me? How many people play Dota? That is a lot of abandons and I doubt all those people go to the shit queue. Plus it didn't even look like you read my post, maybe you didn't or maybe you misread my terrible typing.

Elerion - I agree with pretty much everything, but you said it prolonged the game in 2 out of 500. How many games of Dota 2 has been played? How many times do you think games have been prolonged for EVERYBODY? That is why concede is good, because the sample size is much more then just you or me.

I fully agree with most people that concede is not needed 9.99 times out of 10, but there are extreme cases that it wouldn't hurt to have it in.

The point you fail to see is that it lowers the quality of those 99.9% of games where it is not needed, just to make those last 0.01% of games slightly less painful.

Draskyll (sp?), the caster, playing as a stand-in for QPAD.

Simas_sl said:

Draskyll (sp?), the caster, playing as a stand-in for QPAD.

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Pretty silly, can't believe they dumped Mini. Not sure QPAD will ever be any good.

DeLLy_sl said:

Pretty silly, can't believe they dumped Mini. Not sure QPAD will ever be any good.

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as soon as they pick up merlini and atreezy they can compete.

TecKnoe_sl said:

as soon as they pick up merlini and atreezy they can compete.

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Sounds to me like merlini is hard to work with, basically he is dick to people, which is one reason why he didn't join them originally.

DeLLy_sl said:

Yeah I'm done with the concede argument, so this is my last post about it, since I'm the only one on these forums fighting for it. No one is even pointing the fact out that I have said the concede option needs to be a relatively long time into the game (like 40 mins) which I would take a guess most games ends before or right around that time anyways. It would rarely get used.

Dandain, say what you want, but you made some dumb statements that I didn't even want to respond with another full write up. The abandon comment about people going in the low priority was dumb. People don't get low priority if they leave a few games early out of their hundreds of games. I have 5 abandons in 700ish games, how many others are like me? How many people play Dota? That is a lot of abandons and I doubt all those people go to the shit queue. Plus it didn't even look like you read my post, maybe you didn't or maybe you misread my terrible typing.

Elerion - I agree with pretty much everything, but you said it prolonged the game in 2 out of 500. How many games of Dota 2 has been played? How many times do you think games have been prolonged for EVERYBODY? That is why concede is good, because the sample size is much more then just you or me.

I fully agree with most people that concede is not needed 9.99 times out of 10, but there are extreme cases that it wouldn't hurt to have it in.

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First, you implied game abandonment is an absolutely chronic problem in the environment of matchmaking. Abandonment is not a problem except in the very very very shittiest part of dota where people hardly play or just don't even know what the point of the game is without tutorials and other introductions yet. You implied that you have people abandoning in your games at a rate that is far higher than 5 out of 700, you just said that 999/1000 games do not need a concede option. So why then it is a solution to the one out of 1000 games? Especially when that solution will impact far more than .01% of games? Its like you're taking a jackhammer to a game that almost never happens, and if it does, because you leave so little, just abandon it immediately and re-queue. You won't be punished you said it yourself. That's your perk.

Your second problem is that you somehow think every player has the same mental mindset as you in every game. You suggest, that if you knew you could still concede in 15 minutes you might just keep trying harder to win? This is not how that logic works out, have you played league of legends? Team effort spirals down more rapidly the lower the concede timer becomes when things get dysfunctional. Concede does not fix the problem you want it to, it creates others. You're the one who has the twisted viewpoint, but do keep acting like I don't read what you wrote.

The problem is also in certain brackets instead of finishing the game at 20 minutes when it clearly can be pushed and won because it's a stomp, the winning team prefers to farm for another 30 minutes.

DeLLy_sl said:

Sounds to me like merlini is hard to work with, basically he is dick to people, which is one reason why he didn't join them originally.

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wut. Merlini is known as probably the nicest guy in dota2. This is probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted by you, and that's saying a lot.

DeadAgain!?_sl said:

The problem is also in certain brackets instead of finishing the game at 20 minutes when it clearly can be pushed and won because it's a stomp, the winning team prefers to farm for another 30 minutes.

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If you don't like being farmed for 30 minutes, don't lose? Plus you can just go hide in the side of the map and they'll end the game.

DeadAgain!?_sl said:

The problem is also in certain brackets instead of finishing the game at 20 minutes when it clearly can be pushed and won because it's a stomp, the winning team prefers to farm for another 30 minutes.

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It's called low priority queue