DOTA 2

Linkens is completely situational on puck, I wouldn't always build it. Sycthe is always good, especially since you're a blink initiator and can get the hex on carries before the BKB. If your team is lacking damage, Dagon is a great item as you can blink, silence, dagon, orb away pretty easily. With a dagon 5 you can almost pick off a support every time. If the enemy team is melee heavy I like to go Shivas, the attack speed slow + move speed slow is really nice, not to mention the armor helps well. Puck isn't really a hero that is supposed to scale well damage wise in to the late game, its utility is where it shines later on.

Zaphid_sl said:

Shiva, Linken, Dagon, Refresher, there are many decent items

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Yeah, all good choices, but it will depend on how your team is doing. Dagons for lulz and pick-offs, Shiva's to actually help with team fights (blink in, silence, ult, shiva, rift out).

I almost always go Orchid on him (her?) after the initial Blink Dagger. Gives you a ton of silence on a single target and the extra damage is really nice for pickoffs.

Burren_sl said:

Yeah, all good choices, but it will depend on how your team is doing. Dagons for lulz and pick-offs, Shiva's to actually help with team fights (blink in, silence, ult, shiva, rift out).

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Rift is puck's AOE silence. Jaunt = Teleport to orb.

Right, that ^

I use to main puck. Very versatile hero. Scales very well mid game and one of the best initiator as well as counter initiator. Many builds work on him. While many think Dagon is a troll build; mixed with a ethereal blade and Orchid you can almost guarantee to take anyone out. However it is a very situational build.

Dagon is just good period. Especially if you're snowballing. Dagon is seen as a troll build because it barely increases your stat gain + right click, which is nearly pointless on Puck. It's a nuking hero that greatly benefits from getting kills.

If your Gyrocopter is building dagon then I'd say wtf, but it's just so good.

Biggest thing with dagon is its almost never worth it to upgrade it - but the first tier dagon finished early enough can be a great pickup.

Why do you think it's not worth it to upgrade?

Sutekh_sl said:

Why do you think it's not worth it to upgrade?

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2720/3970/5220/6470/7720 is the cost of dagon 1/2/3/4/5 Statistically you gain 8 intellect and +400 damage to the nuke for 5000 gold. 5000 gold is more or less another very large item. Rare is the game where increase in the dagons nuke damage is the difference between securing a kill or not. Its kind of a question of efficiency, given what you could make besides more dagon. 2700 gold isn't very expensive for that initial 400 damage nuke coupled with all all the base stats. It really becomes questionable if the next levels in the dagon would snowball you harder vs all the other options available.

You're paying 2700 gold for the first 400 dmg (not even including stats)... Then 5000 gold for the NEXT 400. Almost double. I'd take a sheepstick + Dagon 1 over a Dagon 5 anyday.

*Reth beat me*

nite1_sl said:

Linkins you're right about. I think I was building it out of habit instead of when needed. Puck is so good at getting out of trouble and because of that I didnt realize you dont always need something like it.

Ill have to try building a dagons. Usually avoid it because I think dagons has a rep of being a troll item. do you guys think its worth getting an eth blade without dagons? Also ill have to try shivas I always forget about that item.

How aggressive do you guys get w puck early game? I tend to hold off until im at least 6 and have treads up then only go if something presents itself. Can you play him/her more aggressively?

Also thanks again for all the advice/ comments

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Puck has the needed reliance of Dream Coil to truly have successful ganks. Without that you can blow all your spells and if the target is able to run away, you just wasted your time. Normally when playing Puck, I'll chill in mid until like the 9/10 min mark, depending on what the opposing mid is doing and depending on the rune situations. You want to get a fast blink dagger as it allows you to easily get in/out of fights and do massive damage to people. Dagon/Eth blade is truly situational, Ex: Your carry has very little farm and isn't doing damage, they have a strong melee carry and you're one of the only damage dealers, AND there is no Lina/Lion type ulti on the enemy team. If you just want to continue pub stomping it's good, but theoretically I figured we were talking about serious situations.

As far as Dagon goes, the 15 second CD and 100 mana cost I feel is better than the +400 dmg from upgrading it. That almost guarantees you'll get at least two dagons off in a fight. I wouldn't continue upgrading it if the enemy carry is getting out of control and needs some sort of lock down. But if you're going dagon, I like to commit to it, I don't like leaving it level 1, I feel like that is a waste more than anything because if you're in a situation where your dagon is going to remain level because you need other items, you were probably better off spending money initially on those other items. The only hero I could see dagon 1 being viable on is Pugna and that's thanks to decryp.

I'm by no means a Puck master, I just really enjoy playing the hero. I have a 70% win rate out of 25 games with it.http://dotabuff.com/players/9217813/...atch_type=real

Pyros_sl said:

That said, the cooldown and mana cost go down dramatically too. Mana cost might not be too much of an issue but the 15secs cd on a 800nuke is a pretty big deal vs 35secs for 400. Think it depends on your hero mostly and how dominant you are.

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Right so, what was said above in a nut shell. If the dagon becomes ineffective because its only level 1, upgrade it but if it is still doing exactly what you need it to do at level 1, transitioning into a larger item like a sheep stick is more gold efficient.

Sutekh_sl said:

As far as Dagon goes, the 15 second CD and 100 mana cost I feel is better than the +400 dmg from upgrading it. That almost guarantees you'll get at least two dagons off in a fight. I wouldn't continue upgrading it if the enemy carry is getting out of control and needs some sort of lock down. But if you're going dagon, I like to commit to it, I don't like leaving it level 1, I feel like that is a waste more than anything because if you're in a situation where your dagon is going to remain level because you need other items, you were probably better off spending money initially on those other items. The only hero I could see dagon 1 being viable on is Pugna and that's thanks to decryp.

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7700 gold is a huge commitment and I just have a hard time comparing the 5k gold from dagon 5 vs many many other options. Shiva's offers an AE nuke + slow and the aura, sheep is sheep. I think its hard to argue that Shiva's in a teamfight or hex arn't worth at least 800 magic damage before resists. My rule of dagon is - it needs to have a purpose - a set of heroes or hero that you intend to decimate with it. If it loses that function because its not upgraded, upgrade away.

Dagon is good on everyone in every situation it is the happy stick

Dota 2 - Wraith-Night

Lots of nice stuff this patch also pretty insane that slark made it into cm

The holiday event looks almost like x hero defense

Why is it insane that Slark made it into CM? I'm down in shit-tier but I've never seen a Slark dominate.