DOTA 2

Sutekh

Sutekh

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Genjiro_sl said:
Yea Void is just retarded now with that chrono buff.

I mean, Razor was as tanky as you can get in that Empire game and refrsher chrono doesnt give fucks about how tanky any hero is.
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It's a tough situation, but I think it's pretty clear his early game is just way too strong, R should not be a free kill for a carry. I have a feeling the bonus damage he gets from bashes in chrono is gone and the duration on chrono well be more weighted towards rank 3. Mask of Madness/treads is all you need to blow someone up at like 6-7.
 
Caal

Caal

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How do you get rid of the BKB Notail?!?! No way the Heart is worth more when taking down the throne. Wow.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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If you're gonna make that play though, you buy a new bkb so you can beast on the buildings with no one bothering you. He spent 3/4 of his time CCed that last fight, halberd into fissure into song into whatever the fuck, that's just not how you rapier rush the base, unless you planned on fighting them in front of the fountain which is pretty dumb, ignore them, fight the buildings, with pugna and a farmed alchemist it's doable.
 
Genjiro

Genjiro

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Void is just stupidly strong in the offlane and can bully supports trying to zone him out (I forget who iceicieice did it to, every time they got near him he would rape them if he got a proc). With just a Poor Mans shield he has like 6 armor and what, 70+ damage? Where other agi carries are lower in damage and armor generally too at that stage.
 
Genjiro

Genjiro

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Im wondering why teams stopped doing it in ti4 where during this spring teams were countering Wraith King with Quas/Wex Invoker because EMP just wrecks his ability to use his ulti. A leveled up EMP even would rape all of his mana after a tornado to initiate teamfights where he could literally do nothing. Yea, you cant gank as early now with the cold snap nerf, but I dont think think the .3 second delay on EMP was really a big deal.

Idk, I'd love to see some quas wex invoker play at some point.

edit; oops meant to add that to my post above

edit2: Ayesee just says, "Titan is doing great tactically, but strategically they are not, if that makes sense". dot dot dot
 
G

gmstbfla_sl

shitlord
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Void hasn't been doing nearly as well this tournament as heroes like Doom, Brew, Enigma, Lycan, Tinker, etc. Just because he dominates in few games doesn't mean he needs a nerf.

Again, this goes back to the Naga discussion. If you pick a mid game oriented lineup and don't win in the mid game, you're probably going to lose late. That's just a natural tradeoff. Sure, Void isn't complete food early game, but he certainly doesn't bring as much to the table as heroes like Razor or Clinkz. If he's able to survive into the late game, heshouldbe able to lay the smack down on them, especially if he's backed up by a farmed Weaver and Tinker.
 
Genjiro

Genjiro

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gmstbfla_sl said:
Void hasn't been doing nearly as well this tournament as heroes like Doom, Brew, Enigma, Lycan, Tinker, etc. Just because he dominates in few games doesn't mean he needs a nerf.

Again, this goes back to the Naga discussion. If you pick a mid game oriented lineup and don't win in the mid game, you're probably going to lose late. That's just a natural tradeoff. Sure, Void isn't complete food early game, but he certainly doesn't bring as much to the table as heroes like Razor or Clinkz. If he's able to survive into the late game, heshouldbe able to lay the smack down on them, especially if he's backed up by a farmed Weaver and Tinker.
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You could say that for almost every other hard carry too. However, they dont have abilities that guarantee you win the game unless you fuck up. Antimage, Spectre, etc are nowhere near as powerful as Faceless Void right now, and areworseearly game. Those heroes also dont have abilities that guarantee you kills for other farmed heroes on your team.

I don't think he is anywhere near balanced right now when you lump other hard late game carries in with him.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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He doesn't guarantee shit though. If he did he wouldn't have a 42%winrate over 33games. Most teams play him as a 3 due to offlane and shit and he gets that amount of farm, there's a few cases where he spirals out of control from getting lucky on his early kills and having a weak lane vs him so he transition into a lategame carry, in a lot of these games he's just a teamfight/initiator, like enigma, centaur or darkseer. He provides cool stuff but he's reliant on a long cooldown(until lvl 16 or aghanim) and is heavily item reliant. There's a small window of time where he can kill supports on his own, but so can a lot of offlaners. Centaur kills supports with just a blink dagger all the time and his setup is enough for stuff like sunstrike and arrow without relying on his ult(which is shorter cooldown anyway).

He's trending sure but I don't see him getting nerfed into the ground with the stats he's getting. He has a gamechanging ult lategame sure and he has carry potential, but heroes like dark seer and enigma also do that shit, can jungle if they're getting shut down in lane, are less reliant on items and are better pushers/counterpushers and better farmers.

Unless he shows consistent positive results, there's no need to nerf a hero just because he's picked a lot.
 
Genjiro

Genjiro

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What has Valve done after every single TI with the heroes getting nearly 100% pick/banned? Hi2u Morphling, Naga Siren, etc. Has nothing to do with their winrate. You're delusional if you think he isnt about to get hit with the nerfbat. I expect Skywrath movespeed gets nerfed, and Razor to get knocked down a peg too.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Genjiro_sl said:
What has Valve done after every single TI with the heroes getting nearly 100% pick/banned? Hi2u Morphling, Naga Siren, etc. Has nothing to do with their winrate. You're delusional if you think he isnt about to get hit with the nerfbat. I expect Skywrath movespeed gets nerfed, and Razor to get knocked down a peg too.
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You're right he's probably getting nerfed, I shouldn't have said he wouldn't because of his stats. He won't get nerfed hard though. Even if he had good stats, and he doesn't have near the stats of naga or morphling nor does he have a very high ban rate(which would point to a massive power imbalance), he wouldn't get nerfed very hard to see the effects of nerfs. After TI2 Icefrog hasn't nerfed anything very hard even when it was dominating all the time. Batrider has been nerfed several times, with small nerfs everytime, and until recently he was still 100%pick/ban and has been for like 2years.

Void isn't anywhere near that level, he'll probably get the bonus dmg on bashes during chrono removed and maybe some base damage/agi growth/base armor small nerf or something like that and that'll be it. It won't affect his potency all that much but people will be tempted to reconsider the pick and rediscover old shit like dark seer and centaur and he'll fall off completely until a team starts running him again in optimized setup instead of as a default pick even when he doesn't fit. That's how the cycle goes.
 
Genjiro

Genjiro

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I'd say Batrider got nerfed hard after the last TI. The fact that he is still so good is a testament to how ridiculously OP he was before. I still remember the stat from Ti3 professional dota that in 2013 in something like close to 900 pro matches bat wasnt picked or banned in like 4 matches. In 6.79 ie the first big post TI3 patch, his lasso range got almost halved (175 to 100), vision was reduced by 200, and his base damage was nerfed by an insane amount....10 dmg.

As for Void, I'm not sure how you change him. I was thinking that if you want him to be a hero which fulfills the carry role just make chrono stop all units and heroes other than him on the map, so you cant set up retarded combos when its only a 60s cooldown. Even then that would be OP probably. Let him rape with MoM and such to start a fight and turn it into 5v4 or 5v3 and ensure hes not just fulfilling this secondary role which can turn into a carry if it goes really late.
 
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