Dungeon Defenders II

velk_sl said:

That seems a kind of harsh response to the pre-alpha not having loot filtering. You seem to care about it, and it sounds like a good idea - have you asked them to add it ?

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Yes, it's one of the major threads under the suggestion boards. While I admit it may come off as harsh it also just seems like a gross oversight that is very simple to do. The way their loot works is that you get a TON of items after each round, it's random so hard to find upgrades at the top end with the stats you want on them. Again no big deal it fits in the game, but then the inventory system doesn't even let you "show me only epics(to use wow terms) or show me only items with tower power mods" so you have to hover over all the items and compare them to what you currently have AND(although less so) factor in mentally the number of upgrades to see if it will result in a better item after it's been upgraded.

The problem, at it's very core, is they don't want to do it. They have no come out 100% to say they but they've hinted at it a number of times. That it would cheapen the experience or whatever. Which is why I am a bit harsh, it's the Brad Vision(TM) all over again in a new game/genre. They argue that loot is a staple of the game and that having these types of filters would trivialize things or take the fun out of it. I hope I'm wrong, I hope they change their mind.

The mudflation in DD1 was pretty bad, no denying that. Funny part it that it didn't bother me. They eventually reached some pretty hard maps which were extremely tough to beat on survival mode even with a few max heroes in awesome gear. I mean it was possible to eventually get there, but they did finally level out the difficulty and items(after they were mudflated).

Another core problem to this game is the MOBA toxicity that happens in these types of games. It's co-op, and the more people you have(up to 4) the better things are because you get more loot/xp/etc, but unless you know people it's just not fun to play in pugs. You have much more limited mana in this game(so DU is less of a problem) so when you get some pug building shit willy nilly instead of upgrading you can actually lose. That and people fight and bitch about who's got +1% better stats. At least you can't kick or just sell people's towers which used to be a problem in DD1. I'm not really sure there is a fix for this sadly. There are a bunch of things you can do to mitigate it but ultimately it's not a pug friendly co-op game. You've got to find a little community and get involved. Would be nice if they added guilds or something

Rangoth_sl said:

Yes, it's one of the major threads under the suggestion boards. While I admit it may come off as harsh it also just seems like a gross oversight that is very simple to do. The way their loot works is that you get a TON of items after each round, it's random so hard to find upgrades at the top end with the stats you want on them. Again no big deal it fits in the game, but then the inventory system doesn't even let you "show me only epics(to use wow terms) or show me only items with tower power mods" so you have to hover over all the items and compare them to what you currently have AND(although less so) factor in mentally the number of upgrades to see if it will result in a better item after it's been upgraded.

The problem, at it's very core, is they don't want to do it. They have no come out 100% to say they but they've hinted at it a number of times. That it would cheapen the experience or whatever. Which is why I am a bit harsh, it's the Brad Vision(TM) all over again in a new game/genre. They argue that loot is a staple of the game and that having these types of filters would trivialize things or take the fun out of it. I hope I'm wrong, I hope they change their mind.

The mudflation in DD1 was pretty bad, no denying that. Funny part it that it didn't bother me. They eventually reached some pretty hard maps which were extremely tough to beat on survival mode even with a few max heroes in awesome gear. I mean it was possible to eventually get there, but they did finally level out the difficulty and items(after they were mudflated).

Another core problem to this game is the MOBA toxicity that happens in these types of games. It's co-op, and the more people you have(up to 4) the better things are because you get more loot/xp/etc, but unless you know people it's just not fun to play in pugs. You have much more limited mana in this game(so DU is less of a problem) so when you get some pug building shit willy nilly instead of upgrading you can actually lose. That and people fight and bitch about who's got +1% better stats. At least you can't kick or just sell people's towers which used to be a problem in DD1. I'm not really sure there is a fix for this sadly. There are a bunch of things you can do to mitigate it but ultimately it's not a pug friendly co-op game. You've got to find a little community and get involved. Would be nice if they added guilds or something

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Never ran into that issue in DD1 really. You pug as you're coming up of course and then from time to time after that and friend the folks who aren't pants on head retarded. When its time to get shit done so to speak you invite folks you know. Or you host an upgrade only game and boot anyone who can't follow instructions.

According to the Steam page, the Dev team just got back from PAX, and there is an updates in the works? Do we hold out hope for some nice changes? Have they given any previews?

Do Early Access games ever go on sale? I'm on the fence on this, and just waiting for a great patch, or some push to sway me one way or another.

Crone_sl said:

According to the Steam page, the Dev team just got back from PAX, and there is an updates in the works? Do we hold out hope for some nice changes? Have they given any previews?

Do Early Access games ever go on sale? I'm on the fence on this, and just waiting for a great patch, or some push to sway me one way or another.

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Early access is rarely a good idea - if you are anything like me, you'll play something, get sick of the incomplete bugginess, and then months/years later when it actually releases, you won't care anymore.

Haha, could be right! Just picked this up last night. Just getting into game now.

Not sure if my account name is needed, or my character name is needed to run some maps. Decided to roll up Apprentice, since they were the black sheep of DD1, I was hoping they would be ok this time around. Monk was my main before, but figured they were nerfed to hell and back... or should have been.

Edit: Played it 2 hours, and already finding some stuff that's annoying as shit.

I haven't seen a way to easily add steam friends. Meet a player that isn't stupid, I would like to friend them. Can't do it easily. All manual by asking what their steam ID would be.

Campaign mode pushing me into the first map over and over regardless of how many times I've beat it, or my level? That's stupid. Why is it not putting people into a Tavern first, so the maps can be selected there?

Just a couple of things I've noticed. It's annoying. Although probably keep playing just to do it. lol

So yea, they did release a big new patch. I won't post the notes as you can go to the forums of DD2 to read them but in general they continue to fucking miss the target and point badly.

Apprentice is still the black sheep. They are plenty viable once you get good end game gear, but even with that end game gear, put the exact same items on a squire and you are instantly almost twice as strong. This was the case in DD1 as well. They justify it with some crazy theoretical math about the apprentice vs. squire under perfect conditions but in reality that is almost never the case in a real map and real game.

-The bug with campaign mode is listed as a known bug, you have to hit some strange combination of buttons to auto advance to the next stage. I won't rag on them too hard as it is alpha and they admit it's a bug.
-Huge patch, big deal, lots of balance changes, etc. Still absolutely NO inventory/loot management options. And the gem of this, which I've already bitched about in this thread, is that even if they are holding their firm stance on the "no filtering" option, they still didn't give us a button to sell all of the items in the "temporary bag". So you have to manually click on each item to sell it. Sure, they temp bag will auto sell after 1-2 days, but ohh wait, by then it's got a 1000 items in it and it's not only impossible to scan through for new shit that may be good because of lag and pure inventory count, once it's full shit disappears instead of selling the oldest item or whatever. So you actually can lose loot
-Still no or little transparency on what stats do. Gotta love their forums too, same old bullshit about "mystery of the game" or "its on the forums" or even better "gives me the hardcore players something to theory-craft"....EQ one anyone? Modern games that don't fucking tell you what stats do is just fucking stupid. So unless I want to be hardcore(which I sadly kind of admit I am with DD series) I'm not allowed to know what shit does? Really casual friendly, great way to grow your market.
-Still stats that do fucking nothing for any towers. Attack speed, only affects 2 of your towers, power affects 1, health affects all, well unless you are a monk.
-Huntress traps, while having their purpose I can't deny, have such pathetic trigger and effect radius that unless you have the lanes memorized are a challenge to place. Not new user friendly at all. Is there seriously any reason why all class towers have a decent shot arc/spread and the monk auras have a giant land spot but the traps are small? Their DPS is in line(give or take within DD bullshit limits) with everything else...but you need to be a master to place them. It literally makes no sense.


I really get sad about this shit. I would play a TD game of this style like some of you play MMO's if it were just fucking decent. There are literally NO competitors to this game except MAYBE orcs vs. towers/sanctum or whatever it's called and it's not really that close. I would make a competing project and kickstart that bitch if I had any artistic talent. I could probably develop a "shitty graphics" version with a better core gameplay in about 6 months, wtb artists and coders!

I'm almost was going to play this game, but I've recently started a rule.

I don't play games that have "early access" (MMOs don't count because you need to stress the servers)

I don't play pay games with cash shops. I understand its f2p when it comes out, but really getting over the whole micro transaction thing.

Really over this whole F2P thing. Backlog of games is so real that I can afford to be picky now a days.

Penance_sl said:

I'm almost was going to play this game, but I've recently started a rule.

I don't play games that have "early access" (MMOs don't count because you need to stress the servers)

I don't play pay games with cash shops. I understand its f2p when it comes out, but really getting over the whole micro transaction thing.

Really over this whole F2P thing. Backlog of games is so real that I can afford to be picky now a days.

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I thought you said you won't play games in early access, and I was going to agree that playing those was a terrible idea. Not playing games that are finished, but had an early access though ? That's a bit harsh.

I'd also say that cash shops aren't inherently bad, as long as they stick to costumes and the like, but I actually checked out DD2 after their last patch and was kind of offended at the stink of cash whoring. One 10 minute game at level 4 ended up with 5 'locked' chests that pop up 'insert cash here' when you click on them. That kind of shit really annoys me.

velk_sl said:

I thought you said you won't play games in early access, and I was going to agree that playing those was a terrible idea. Not playing games that are finished, but had an early access though ? That's a bit harsh.

I'd also say that cash shops aren't inherently bad, as long as they stick to costumes and the like, but I actually checked out DD2 after their last patch and was kind of offended at the stink of cash whoring. One 10 minute game at level 4 ended up with 5 'locked' chests that pop up 'insert cash here' when you click on them. That kind of shit really annoys me.

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lol, I had the same thought. Tried again after the patch and while I love this genre and style game I just can't bring myself to like the DD series anymore for so many reasons. This one included. Those chests drop like 500 per game. WAY more than loot. It's hilarious.

This comes to the PS4 in 2 days.

Shame that they did not make accounts compatible between the PC and PS4... Terrible decision, but I guess the infrastructure probably just would be prohibitively expensive. Debating on whether to get the PS4 or PC version. On the one hand, supposedly Diablo 3 plays wonderfully on consoles, and I basically think of the first dungeon defenders as just a tower defense D3... but on the other hand... They aren't blizzard, so maybe the controls might be fucked.

So... how is the game?

Kind of shitty. X tower gets patched. X tower is now best tower. Build infinite X tower and take a nap. It's kind of like DD1 these days, everything is figured out and the mudflation is retarded. If you enjoyed DD1 post Trans armor it might float your boat for a while but if the ridiculous leaps in power replacing skill, effort, and strategy turned you off you probably wont think much of DD2.

Taloo_sl said:

Kind of shitty. X tower gets patched. X tower is now best tower. Build infinite X tower and take a nap. It's kind of like DD1 these days, everything is figured out and the mudflation is retarded. If you enjoyed DD1 post Trans armor it might float your boat for a while but if the ridiculous leaps in power replacing skill, effort, and strategy turned you off you probably wont think much of DD2.

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That's a shame. And it's too bad they abandoned the PvP module, even if it was a disappointingly mediocre LoL clone.

So this came out of beta/early access a few weeks ago, and I gave it a whirl to see what they'd done with a 2 year beta.

It's actually pretty solid now, they toned back a lot on the cash whoring - the only cash exclusive stuff now is skins for heroes and towers, although they have some crazy ideas about reasonable prices on those.

The gameplay itself is pretty fun - they added an EQ like AA system called ascension levels - once you are max level you can gain ascension slowly for minor bonuses etc to various stats and towers. The ascension level applies to all characters you have, and pre-max level you can level 4 characters at the same time, so trying out different character and skill combos is very easy, you don't get locked into the ascension build you chose.

Their upper level 'chaos' levels ( replace nightmare ), as well as being harder and giving better gear, also introduce a new enemy type that hard counters particular strategies. Examples are cyborg orcs that can disable traps with an EMP beam, geodes that project a large bubble around themselves that reflects tower projectiles etc. It means you can't just do the same layouts for everything, and have to mix it up as you progress.

The amount of shit that drops has been drastically reduced too, almost all drops are minor ilvl upgrades over your best equipped character, so there's a decent flow of progression without the excessive inventory micro-management that plagued it before.

Overall a worthy successor to DD1 now - it's free, so if you like tower defense/action games, worth a try.