Elden Ring - From Software + George RR Martin

ronne

ronne

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Game was arguably much, much easier on launch than it is now.

Stuff like rock toss/most of the best summons/rivers of blood/bleed in general/moonveil etc etc have all long since been nerfed in one way or another.

It does feel like boss AI was tweaked in some of the multi-mob boss encounters though? Stuff like the triple crystal bitches fight especially - felt like 2/3 of them spent a lot of time standing around doing nothing while I fought which ever one was aggro at the time. Kind of like every bad kung fu movie where everyone just kinda dances around in a circle while there's a 1v1 going on instead of dogpiling like I remember them doing.
 
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Khane

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A solved game is never harder than a new game that happens to have powerful things that some people on the internet found and wrote guides for at launch. Ever.

Ridiculous.

Maybe don't scour the internet for every guide that trivializes certain mechanics from day one and then never actually learn the game to the point you think a moonveil made the game "way, way easier". Sigh. Moonveil? Really?
 
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Rajaah

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Khane said:
Yea, definitely sounds like you played "completely blind". Good lord bud.
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I mean I discovered all of that over like 4 playthroughs and 200 hours and about a year. No need to be a dick about it.

My only point here was that journalists etc make the game sound way harder than it is, and that wards people off who might play it otherwise. Yet the game gives you a zillion tools to get through it and it's nothing compared to a Sekiro or a Nioh.
 
Rajaah

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Hateyou said:
Not to mention that once you have it figured out you’ve pretty much future proofed yourself for the entire series going forward.
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I think that's true about a few of these games. Like in 2015 Bloodborne was my first From game and I had a TON of trouble with it for like the first ten hours. Once you figure out what these games want from you, that'll help you with all of the From Soulsbornes. I guess if ER was someone's first From game, then I can definitely see the death toll being high.
 
Khane

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You're contradicting your own point. I'm not being a dick about it.

Every game in existence is easier, substantially easier, with knowledge and playthrough experience. It's kind of silly to admonish opinions of difficulty, for a game that is difficult, based on "tools" within a game world that is particularly opaque based on "knowledge" of their existence only obtained through googling or playing through the entire game and scouring its entire game world.
 
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ronne

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Khane said:
A solved game is never harder than a new game that happens to have powerful things that some people on the internet found and wrote guides for at launch. Ever.

Ridiculous.

Maybe don't scour the internet for every guide that trivializes certain mechanics from day one and then never actually learn the game to the point you think a moonveil made the game "way, way easier". Sigh. Moonveil? Really?
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Did you ever clear the game with launch moonveil lmao.

2 hits stance broke nearly every boss in the game with range longer than their attacks could even reach most of the time. Nevermind how much poise damage rock sling could apply at range.

You're talking about this like it's some kind of strategy game where you can just read about what to do and employ it every time. Reality is most people are just bad at pressing buttons and reading boss attack patterns and no amount of reading guides is gonna help them fix that, so of course losing the crutch of mimic tear or whatever their preferred overturned weapon/spell was is gonna make things harder for them.
 
DickTrickle

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Khane said:
You're contradicting your own point. I'm not being a dick about it.

Every game in existence is easier, substantially easier, with knowledge and playthrough experience. It's kind of silly to admonish opinions of difficulty, for a game that is difficult, based on "tools" within a game world that is particularly opaque based on "knowledge" of their existence only obtained through googling.
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Why do you think everyone googled for all their knowledge instead of learning things through play? I found all but two bosses on my first playthrough because I'm an exhaustive explorer (and consequently got and tried most guaranteed weapon drops). I didn't need anyone to tell me.
 
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Khane

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Yea, moonveil had range longer than boss attacks and 2 power attacks stance broke everything..

Right.

Neither of those things were true, and much more powerful things existed then and do now, but okay.

Moonveil was fast
 
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Khane

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DickTrickle said:
Why do you think everyone googled for all their knowledge instead of learning things through play? I found all but two bosses on my first playthrough because I'm an exhaustive explorer (and consequently got and tried most guaranteed weapon drops). I didn't need anyone to tell me.
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I don't, he's suggesting that the game was not very difficult and then offering examples of things that would only be known via googling. He said the game isn't that difficult (it is) and based that opinion around what essentially equates to full walk through guide knowledge and video tutorials.
 
ronne

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It literally did though. Moonveil stance broke players in PVP with a single hit depending on where it landed with blade + energy beam.

The energy beam alone did more poise damage than fully charged r2 attacks from great hammers.

You're smoking rock or never played with moonveil prior to the mountain of nerfs it ate
 
Khane

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I did play with moonveil actually. It was "hype" because it was fast and let people move more freely. But it never stance broke the majority of bosses in 2 hits nor did it have longer range.

It was very easy to use without learning opponent movements, which is why people latched onto it so early and then a found plethora of other weapons that staggered even faster with nothing but jump attacks.
 
ronne

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Do you like have selective amnesia? The poise damage on moonveil was the entire reason it was so busted. It did more poise damage with the energy beam alone than a jumping R2 from a colossal weapon lmao.

Next you're gonna tell me the sword of night and flame L2 wasn't oneshotting half the bosses in the game, or waves of blood oneshotting the other half after they fixed arcane.
 
Khane

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I'm not the one with selective amnesia here.

You're also betraying your own posts by adding new contenders that required specific gear, upgrade and stat setups to function and also have a very loose definition of one shot.

Keep proving my point.
 
ronne

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It's not like it was hard to figure out how insane moonveil was, or how much damage rock sling did, or the first time someone tried out rivers of blood after they patched arcane so it, ya know, worked at all.

The implication that it took a year of scouring the wiki and watching shitty youtube videos to realize the night and flame sword art did like 300% more damage than any other comparable weapon art is laughable. This shit was all immediately obvious from even casual dicking around with weapons and their unique arts.
 
Hateyou

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Moonveil was massively strong in the first few weeks of ER. It got nerfed hard very early. It was still a decent weapon due to it's speed but claiming it wasn't doing the things it was doing is absurd.

1708226315947.png
 
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Khane

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Yes friends, since the inception of gaming, people, playing a new game they couldn't possibly know everything about , found something they deemed "totes fuckin broken bros, holy shitz lol". And then they make videos and internet content to drive views! And surely, in that moment in time, when the game is 1 week old, the most powerful item of all time, ever, had been discovered.

And then some of us that played the entire time, and tried it pre nerf, and then kept playing for months after, realized it was typical drivel when comparing it to other things we, and the internet at large, discovered in the meantime.

It could send even Godfrey into a poise cluster fuck! It's butter!

Christ... this place has fallen so far

It was a very strong, very fast weapon. Which made it way easier to use. It was not nearly the godstick people remember
 
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Rajaah

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Here's how early I played ER: After a few days of playing I decided I wanted a good katana. I asked on here "what's a good katana to get" and someone said Malenia's sword is the best katana. Then I spent the entire game trying to find Malenia's katana, not realizing it was Literally The Last Thing I'd Get. Used that dental-pick looking twinblade for most of the game, was highly effective.

Didn't even know Moonveil existed yet. Moonveil became a huge meta for a while.

Haven't played since... probably early 2023? So I don't really know the state of the game now. Still unsure if I'll play the DLC on NG++ or start a new game for it so I don't get smashed.
 
Rajaah

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DickTrickle said:
Why do you think everyone googled for all their knowledge instead of learning things through play? I found all but two bosses on my first playthrough because I'm an exhaustive explorer (and consequently got and tried most guaranteed weapon drops). I didn't need anyone to tell me.
Click to expand...

Last time I played a year ago, I found two new dungeons (crypts under the Draconic Tree Sentinel bridge) and was shocked there was anything left because I'd scoured everything.

Just found out last week there's apparently a crypt dungeon somewhere with a "Nomadic Mimic Tear" boss or something along those lines. So there's STILL stuff out there I haven't found. Game is nuts.

Khane said:
I don't, he's suggesting that the game was not very difficult and then offering examples of things that would only be known via googling. He said the game isn't that difficult (it is) and based that opinion around what essentially equates to full walk through guide knowledge and video tutorials.
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It's not difficult compared to other games in the genre, not to even get into things like Ninja Gaiden, Super Meat Boy or Cuphead (what I think of when I think difficult). While Cuphead might roflstomp somebody ad nauseum if their reflexes just aren't there, I think anybody can finish Elden Ring. Even an elderly person with no reflexes. I'd recommend the game to anybody because there's always a way around every potential roadblock. Either level more, try casting, use some of the options available like summoning some help, so on and so forth. I don't think there's ever a point in ER where anyone would reach a true impasse, the way you might with a twitch game like NES Punch-Out or something.

As for things that would only be known via googling, most of what I listed is dropped right into the player's lap. Player summons, spirit summons, etc. Maybe not now, but when I played at launch there was no shortage of people to summon for any fight that caused me any trouble whatsoever. I remember there being like 30 gold signs outside Mogh's room in Mohgwyn, probably about 10 outside Margit at any given time, etc. I played at launch and found a lot of avenues to victory within that first week or two, then found a lot more over time. The game gives you a crazy amount of tools and basically lets you create your own "easy modes" without actually diminishing the game in any way, something most of the journalists criticizing it didn't grasp.
 
Nirgon

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Both things can be true.

Base game harder than it was at launch as implemented/balanced, being solved makes it easier offsetting
 
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