EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
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Korzax Stonehammer
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Korzax Stonehammer
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Rajaah
Honorable Member
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I know what you mean. I've done almost every raid in EQ in-era except for a couple of exceptions that nag at me:
Veeshan's Peak (Kunark)
Garudon (Kunark?)
LDON raids
Well, the last one doesn't nag at me, the other two kind of do
Zaide
TLP Idealist
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Garudon is not really Kunark. Veksar was added later (and isn't in Kunark on TLPs). As expansions go on there are a lot of odd raid encounters no one does, like Leviathan in DoDH.
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Garudon is like pop or LDON era. It came with veksar. Ldon raids aren't so bad it's just that the good loot versus time ratio is pretty poor compared to other raid zones.
Vanessa
Uncle Tanya
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While its on my mind and I'm in the mood for ruminating on the good ol days (heh)... there's something to be said about Gates of Discord. It was hard as all holy hell. Lots of people hated it I remember. Its nickname was GoDamn. But looking back with the clarity of hindsight being 20/20... GoD was when the endgame raids started to get amazing. The absolute controlled chaos of raids like Noqufiel (sp) and the Cursecallers... I'll never forget the insanity of that particular raid, and I don't think I realized at the time when it was current content, but that shit was terrific.
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Rajaah
Honorable Member
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GoD has some of the best raids in the game. It's where EQ really starts to get good, which is why it's baffling that most people quit before they get to it.
The era of Secrets of Faydwer (level 80) through Rain of Fear (level 100) also contains a lot of great raids. Probably the game's best era for raiding, along with GoD. No slouch either are OoW, DoDH, and TSS in the middle. Unfortunately I've found that the post-100 raids lose a lot of their luster starting with COTF, especially Torment of Velious having fights that go on for 45 minutes or whatever. Playing TLP up to level 100 is an absolute blast though.
I like Velious dragons as much as anybody but the early expansions don't even compare to the post-PoP era on raid fights.
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Runnen
Vyemm Raider
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I'm guessing most people quit in the later expansions despite better raid mechanics because their main reason to play and raid is to relive the good old days precisely.. and that means doing stuff like vanilla dragons, Plane of Hate/Fear, maybe Sleeper's Tomb or Veeshan's Peak maybe since most never saw it back then, and stuff up to Luclin or PoP and then the nostalgia isn't there anymore because that's when the game started losing droves of players.
I think the good old days had poorer graphics and mechanics but it had more charm than the "modern" stuff.
I think the good old days had poorer graphics and mechanics but it had more charm than the "modern" stuff.
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Oh man the bard might just have to come out for the 5th time? Not sure why I can't play other classes, I thin its the start a spell then run off but it doesn't go off that really gets me
Even though early bard is going suck a bunch of dick after every thing I had to play with on selo.
I wish the would do a bit more specifics. So don't have to worry about "oh loll its random loot from the zone) or "original loot has a lot higher chance of dropping then random" etc. Would suck to bag and package up and its basically a small novelty.
Even though early bard is going suck a bunch of dick after every thing I had to play with on selo.
I wish the would do a bit more specifics. So don't have to worry about "oh loll its random loot from the zone) or "original loot has a lot higher chance of dropping then random" etc. Would suck to bag and package up and its basically a small novelty.
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Better raid mechanics isn't a pro to many players it is a con. A huge number of people like these servers because it is the only MMO existence with easy casual raids that are the core of the game rather than an LFR afterthought.
I think many people really like the slow pace of the game that many/most classes offer up through the 65 era and when the game changes later on as they tried to continue to challenge hardcore raiders and GINA becomes required those people quit and reroll on a new TLP.
yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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The "first wave" of people who quit are usually casters and support. My observation is that guilds tend to go through potime with a relatively diverse class mix. Generally as you get through oow and don, my observation is that guilds start to see a lack of main bards and shaman in favor of boxes, a decline in clerics sometimes overall and sometimes lack of mains in favor of boxes, and a lot of druids and int casters disappear and aren't replaced. Guilds reach the deeper expansions like dodh and eventually tss with rosters that are pretty heavy on tanks and monks with a smattering of other physical damage and some (but usually not enough) clerics. Depending on the guild, some limp on until slowly or they can't, and some just sort of fade out as soon as the bards and wizards disappear.
I therefore thinks its unfair to blame any one aspect of the game such as mechanical difficulty that would hit everyone equally. People don't quit TLPs equally. There may be a subset of the quitters who do it because the game is no longer a snooze, but that can't be all of it, and it can't even be the majority. If that was true you'd see a more even distribution of quitting. There has to be something about the GoD through TBS era that causes certain classes to quit and not others, and SoF+ seems to be different as my observation of what few guilds make it there is the bleed slows to a more "normal" rate of attrition and its a bit more even across classes, though examples here are limited.
I also think that whole aspect of wanting to game to be an easy breeze and not wanting more mechanics applies to basic interactions, and different classes lose their ability to cruise control a bit harder than others. This is my explanation for why tanks seem to be ok while others less so; if you're a tank, you can keep going as usual, while if you're not a tank you start to more and more NEED to find one to accomplish things.
Finally, some classes are clearly picked to not have that easy gameplay, they pick it to be crafty and abuse mechanics and excel, and often those are your main bards and enchanters.
All this rambling is a big reason why I'm so often arguing against changes that seem to push the classic-pop game to become more like the god-tbs game. I don't want the balance philosophy of those eras. I think the more these tlps go on with the balancing as it has been, unless direction changes, the more these tlps are gonna start being dominated by tank mains with boxed support and piles of monks and some other physical dps here and there but with few casters.
I therefore thinks its unfair to blame any one aspect of the game such as mechanical difficulty that would hit everyone equally. People don't quit TLPs equally. There may be a subset of the quitters who do it because the game is no longer a snooze, but that can't be all of it, and it can't even be the majority. If that was true you'd see a more even distribution of quitting. There has to be something about the GoD through TBS era that causes certain classes to quit and not others, and SoF+ seems to be different as my observation of what few guilds make it there is the bleed slows to a more "normal" rate of attrition and its a bit more even across classes, though examples here are limited.
I also think that whole aspect of wanting to game to be an easy breeze and not wanting more mechanics applies to basic interactions, and different classes lose their ability to cruise control a bit harder than others. This is my explanation for why tanks seem to be ok while others less so; if you're a tank, you can keep going as usual, while if you're not a tank you start to more and more NEED to find one to accomplish things.
Finally, some classes are clearly picked to not have that easy gameplay, they pick it to be crafty and abuse mechanics and excel, and often those are your main bards and enchanters.
All this rambling is a big reason why I'm so often arguing against changes that seem to push the classic-pop game to become more like the god-tbs game. I don't want the balance philosophy of those eras. I think the more these tlps go on with the balancing as it has been, unless direction changes, the more these tlps are gonna start being dominated by tank mains with boxed support and piles of monks and some other physical dps here and there but with few casters.
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Edaw
Parody
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^this. The pace of early EQ was perfect. You could actually chat while you killed stuff.
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Casters just don't scale well enough with gear so on these servers where everyone is hyper geared why play a caster, sure back in the day they were good because raid loot wasn't raining down on the melee but the truth is melee just benefit more from gear and it is more fun to main them because of that.
I think that is true through the entire life of the game, casters literally peak as a percent of the population in classic and then slowly fall off as the game goes on.
Sterling
El Presidente
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It isn't just a gear thing. It's a skillcap and using later expansion combat tables thing.
yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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It's really not just gear. Early into Gates of Discord they nerfed charm VERY hard within that expansion. A ton of guilds could not actually complete the ikkinz trials afterwards and would literally beg for help from people who had done it. That attitude carried into omens, where they refused (not just forgot, refused) to update ae stuns so that they would phase out on top of hard nerfing charm. Enchanters in god/oow basically ate all the nerfed that the many tlp churners who always quit by then ask for, for their earlier eras. Tons of enchanters bled more than usual bleed because of wow launch and there was a lot of bitching during the latter 70s and 75s expansions about how they needed to make a reason for enchanters because nobody was playing them. On tlps, it happens again on the replays, and enchanters vanish in these eras.
Caster balance is atrocious in the 70s. Non-necros are still pretty bad in the 75s. It's not just on raids either - the entire design of these expansions is laid out so that if you are a random wizard you can no longer feel useful. Soloing c2 tables for xp is just not going to carry you. There isn't really anything for casters to do without joining a group, and groups really don't want casters as much, and the idiots in charge of game design at this point in eq's life (pre-sof) had this boneheaded notion that because casters could solo they shouldn't be as good in groups. It's a bad downward spiral that leads to very few caster mains and almost no caster boxes. Guilds become heavily concentrated. It's super noticeable in DODH where I've heard from every friend I've talked to who made it there, and the couple I was in there, silk rots ASAP. The balance issues aren't fixed until sof and by then it's hard to expect "new" casters to show up.
The tank situation also becomes more and more pronounced in these eras. Pets aren't REALLY viable before sof for the role and mercs aren't until sod and never really all that viable either. You will hear people talk about rangers being ideal tanks for classic leveling. For god+ you use a plate tank if you want to do real baller shit. There aren't good substitutes. Meanwhile, the stuff you kinda need to do becomes more important, so you are both more reliant on tanks and less capable of getting by without doing the shit that needs tanks.
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