EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)

Mrniceguy said:

Trident of Slaughter. Feel free to test it yourself.

Also +Backstab is on a lot of things besides weapons unless you meant %backstab.



Damage is really irrelevant to melee threat generation. Number of swings and procs are really the only relevant things.

Rogues have a "hidden ability" called evade which lowers threat when you use hide in combat.

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First of all, melee damage 100% matters... LOL. You saying melee damage is irrelevant is completely wrong. Procs matter more, but saying melee damage is irrelevant is absurd. Now, I should clarify it's the damage value of the weapon itself in conjunction with the delay that matters here, not the actual damage done. You're not going to use two rusty daggers and generate more threat than a 60/40 2her simply because the other weapons swing more.

And yes, I know what hide does. It does not always succeed. And when it does it may not counteract 3k backstabs when the melee weapon damage value from the tank is so far below that per swing. AFAIK, backstab threat is not normalized, but I'd love to be shown information otherwise.

All of which is more relevant in early eras than later ones, where proccing weapons and rate of procs dramatically increases. But the example was Velious. A warrior at best would have a BoC and a stun/dot weapon and a proc rate normalized to two per minute.

One thing I'm not as clear on is the effect of crits... it was always my understanding they generated more than what a regular swing would, but I don't know that for sure. I don't know that I've ever seen information one way or another on crits that was convincing.

Edit: clarified

I always heard crits didn't affect the amount of hate, just the base damage. But without confirmation from dev, which i'm not sure there has been, wouldn't like to say for certain either way

You guys are arguing with someone who doesn't even know how backstab works

Arbitrary said:

View attachment 393536

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That's true about everything.

Zaide said:

I look forward to the multi page backstab / melee threat argument that's about to take place.

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Hey, at least the all/all idea got some traction in one direction or another. Everything else was quickly put in the shitter.

I can just imagine how toxic that rule set would be without randomized loot.

Halfling Druid guild leader recruiting people just to soak all the tank gear for himself.

Some of you have never seen a ranger headshot Statue of Rallos Zek 5 times and not take aggro, and it really shows.

DickTrickle said:

You're not going to use two rusty daggers and generate more threat than a 60/40 2her simply because the other weapons swing more.

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Ackchually...

It's always nice when people do actual testing. It's going to be great when other people do AC testing and find out what they've been doing for 20 years is wrong.

I choose to believe as my ancestors believed!

Mrniceguy said:

Ackchually...

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Hmm, interesting. I might have to do my own testing after reading this (see it to believe it). I think there would be ways to get better baselines/values using the test arena and the aggro meter that is available there.

Still, it seems my comment would still mostly hold true, as he says the dmg + dmg bonus is a non tiny fraction and that's the formula I was working from. I wasn't talking about max swing. Even with the high-proccing BF and call of sky, 40% threat is from non-procs according to him. That's not irrelevant. In velious with BoC and no clicky proc, that's surely going to be a lower percentage of hate from procs than 60%.

It surely is bizarre since, as he says, there doesn't seem to be a consistent pattern. If all this data is accurate, you still can't actually completely divine by looking at a weapon what would generate more non-proc hate.

Xevy said:

It's always nice when people do actual testing. It's going to be great when other people do AC testing and find out what they've been doing for 20 years is wrong.

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I think AC has been tested quite a bit more because it's far easier to do so. You have the actual damage dealt and AC numbers in front of you and don't have to go at estimating them in a roundabout way.

Everyone ready to find and repeatedly exploit the inevitable fuckup in the raid tiers tomorrow?!

DickTrickle said:

Everyone ready to find and repeatedly exploit the inevitable fuckup in the raid tiers tomorrow?!

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Pretty sure the tier shuffle is just going to result in farming nothing but time with an occasional elemental sweep, just like every TLP ever. Exciting...

Zaide said:

Ngreth: The most I am sharing is the general I have spoken about, except two specific. The specific is the two lonely Phase three-time bosses. They got lumped into the phase 3 grouping instead of being solo. The other 13 NPCs were in Tiny 2 or 3 NPC groupings and got moved to larger groupings.
One thing the note doesn't say is I isolated Storm. All the bosses in the storm spawn way too fast. BUT unlike plane of sky, they DO randomize among themselves. I.E. Their loot is still randomized, but you'll only see Plane of Storm loot on their tables.



[11:02 AM] Ngreth: so realistically the large groupings stayed, and some had a few lonely NPCs added to them

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LachiusTZ said:

Buddy of mine found one in Luclin that was dropping Vulak gear and could be done with 8 toons.

All kinds of dumb shit out there, events people never do with top tier loot etc

GoD with coming back for? Tempted to spool up a 4 zerkers + bard + cleric group for the Lulz

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Ya Im curious about this, too. GoD is the first of the expansions Ive never played and I cant remember if I heard good or bad things about it.

Daidraco said:

Ya Im curious about this, too. GoD is the first of the expansions Ive never played and I cant remember if I heard good or bad things about it.

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Speaking of, does anybody know any good resources on "go here, do X, this is the "hub" of the xpac, these are the dungeons, etc." for GoD+? Allah's is great if you already know shit about fuck, but if you don't, the upcoming expansions seem like they are going to induce a very large feeling of "lost".