Poll EQ TLP Mischief or WOW Classic TBC?

Xerge · May 7, 2021

I've met more EQ players in ESO than I did in WoW in my WoW career. Granted during beta/post release I met a few ex eq players, but not many, and unless you were looking to progress forward in the genre WoW was very weird compared to EQ.

Anyway the poll is missing options. New World closed beta (buy in) is June 20th, TESO has a major DLC release on June 1st which will add a new raid and companion system. TLP/TBC is a lil late IMO, both of these releases will be followed by FF14's Endwalker in the fall. Shit, I have people asking to me start groups for NW and TESO raids atm.

There is just no room for the old anymore going forward. The genre is moving, slowly. I can pretty much assure Blizzard is not attracting talent anymore and they're pretty much dead in the water. The Diablo franchise is going to tank them even worse. Will blizz always have fans? Of course, shit like this will not come to a sudden stop as it doesn't work like that either.

Nola · May 7, 2021

So let me get this straight. You have to buy the TBC expansion (which is understandable) and then pay an additional $35 to clone your vanilla character? What if I just only choose to buy the expansion and not the clone feature? I start as a level 1 in TBC?

Edaw · May 7, 2021

Nola said:
So let me get this straight. You have to buy the TBC expansion (which is understandable) and then pay an additional $35 to clone your vanilla character? What if I just only choose to buy the expansion and not the clone feature? I start as a level 1 in TBC?

Your current classic character can transfer to a/the TBC server for free. If you want to leave a copy on the classic only server, then you pay an extra $35.

xmod2 · May 7, 2021

I think it's somewhere in the middle. Tigole clearly had a big effect on the design of WoW that helped it become as successful as it did. You can see, as a designer, that he really understood MMO players at the time. Old school Blizzard accessibility helps as well. Obviously nobody was going to WoW because "OMG. THE FUROR PLANEDEFILER WORKS THERE!?!?

" but Blizzard wasn't stupid to grab 'experts' in the genre. They attempted to do it a second time bringing in a bunch of WoW raiders (Gurthock, etc). Gurthock is a great raid designer, but I think a mix of min/max balance soulessness and an inability to accept the hard truth that exclusive / inaccessible content is the fiery hearty of an mmo has lead it to be much less successful than the Tigole pickup.

Ambiturner · May 7, 2021

Nola said:
So let me get this straight. You have to buy the TBC expansion (which is understandable) and then pay an additional $35 to clone your vanilla character? What if I just only choose to buy the expansion and not the clone feature? I start as a level 1 in TBC?

Wait, you have to buy the 14 year old expansion that you already bought 14 years ago??

Bobbybick · May 7, 2021

Ambiturner said:
Wait, you have to buy the 14 year old expansion that you already bought 14 years ago??

No, no fuckin clue why they think that.

Vanessa · May 8, 2021

Sevens said:
Jesus fucking christ another thread you had to make about you.

View attachment 353050

...or maybe just another thread that YOU had to post in after I did and focus on me?

Please quote the sentence in my OP that I was 'making about me'. Back up your logic please.

THIS is why you are as stupid as a sack of tamarin testicles.

MrHolland420 · May 8, 2021

how much is a chrono?

Tide27 · May 8, 2021

Vanessa said:
This entire forum, its history, and its legacy is centered around EQ, not WoW. Pretty simple as Wade said, and the poll reflects that. Had Furor, Tigole, Ariel, (and others) and their massive (let's be real here) MASSIVE influence back then on the MMORPG community not made the jump, WoW wouldn't have had the cultural strength it has had and been a flash in the pan like Asheron's Call. They (Blizzard) were very intelligent in their absorption of the biggest social influencers in the genre. But EQ is this communities heart. WoW is a polished EQ but it'll never have the memories. Gooooo EQ!

Lol

Wows success had absolutely zero to do with any fandom of those players mentioned.

EQ had a small population as mentioned prior, but there were several mitigating factors in Wows success and not a single one was that some of the top raid guild leaders moved over there.

Without making long post about it...in no certain order...

WoW released around the GoD and OoW expansions...both complete garbage. Hell, almost the entire GoD expansion consisted of 4 mobs, and not a single one you could pronounce and entire raid zones that consisted of 2 mobs on repeat, to include the bosses.

Everquest 2 released and was a pile of dog shit. Game ran like shit on most computers, half the skills didn't work, upgrading your spells was broken, ...entire game was just fucking awful.

WoW released in a fairly polished state and had graphics thst looked great for the time and were stylized to the point that most computers could run it with ease. Blizzard and war craft carried a massive fan base and the game being as good as it was, drove a lot of word of mouth.

Punko · May 9, 2021

Tide27 said:
Hell, almost the entire GoD expansion consisted of 4 mobs, and not a single one you could pronounce and entire raid zones that consisted of 2 mobs on repeat, to include the bosses.

I enjoyed GoD raid content but was in a guild that cleared (nearly? think 1 mob remained) it at level 65.

mkopec · May 9, 2021

Tide27 said:
Lol

Wows success had absolutely zero to do with any fandom of those players mentioned.

EQ had a small population as mentioned prior, but there were several mitigating factors in Wows success and not a single one was that some of the top raid guild leaders moved over there.

Without making long post about it...in no certain order...

WoW released around the GoD and OoW expansions...both complete garbage. Hell, almost the entire GoD expansion consisted of 4 mobs, and not a single one you could pronounce and entire raid zones that consisted of 2 mobs on repeat, to include the bosses.

Everquest 2 released and was a pile of dog shit. Game ran like shit on most computers, half the skills didn't work, upgrading your spells was broken, ...entire game was just fucking awful.

WoW released in a fairly polished state and had graphics thst looked great for the time and were stylized to the point that most computers could run it with ease. Blizzard and war craft carried a massive fan base and the game being as good as it was, drove a lot of word of mouth.

Not to mention that wow released at a time when internet and high speed was becoming common and everyone had a fucking dell. And Wow could run on a dell. It was the perfect storm. EQ was back in days of dialup and in an era when computers were very niche and more expensive.

Vanessa · May 9, 2021

Tide27 said:
Lol

Wows success had absolutely zero to do with any fandom of those players mentioned.

"Absolutely zero"

Unreal. But you ARE the prick who argues with everything I post in Politics I think.

Pure ignorance, but I'm happy to educate here.

Ariel was the chief designer of Warcraft III. I seem to have mentioned him in my OP, and you people arguing with me here already mentioned WCIII in conjunction with Diablo was where most of WoWs userbase came from, NOT Everquest (which I'm not disagreeing with and never said). Point is, WCIII released a few months before PoP, in which we know was Furor's breaking point and at which point Tigole was already done with EQ and slid over to Blizzard.

Tide27 said:
EQ had a small population as mentioned prior, but there were several mitigating factors in Wows success and not a single one was that some of the top raid guild leaders moved over there.

You sound like someone who was either not even playing EQ then or was just some scrub not involved with the high-end game. EQ was raging in its peak... not necessarily in PURE numbers but in terms of loyal, daily playerbase. The numbers I've seen was 4 million copies which was more than Diablo II AND WC III combined. Granted, that accounted for expansions which EQ at its peak had much more of which meant the loyalty was huge. The fact WoW was able to tear a lot of that loyalty free and absorb a fair amount of EQers is huge and a testament to how good WoW was and the buzz it created. Fact is, most of WoW's userbase wasn't EQ, Diablo, OR WC people but just from all sorts of places... old gamers, console gamers, new gamers, young gamers... etc etc. It was a fantastic game. This fact has NOTHING to do with what my OP was stating... that those 3 were extremely influential in its success. It's not just about creating buzz by word of mouth, it was about CREATING and polishing this game to be as good as it was, and YES... I 100% maintain Ariel, Tigole and Furor were absolutely instrumental in that fact.

Hell, ask anyone who played with Ariel, Tigole and Furor and they'd tell you.. they were brilliant.

Tide27 said:
WoW released around the GoD and OoW expansions...both complete garbage.

Again, spoken like someone who either didn't play the game or a scrub not involved with the high-end game. I just made a post this week stating how GoD's end game was incredible with mechanics that totally tossed tank-n-spank into the garbage. OoW had epics 2.0 which made for a plethora of raids for high-end guilds. Every night in OoW was a challenging menu of virtually endless raids.

Tide27 said:
Hell, almost the entire GoD expansion consisted of 4 mobs, and not a single one you could pronounce and entire raid zones that consisted of 2 mobs on repeat, to include the bosses.

Again, complete horseshit.

Tide27 said:
Everquest 2 released and was a pile of dog shit.

This is true, but I never once touched it. I just, y'know, talked to people and had my finger on the pulse of gaming culture back then... much better than today

Tide27 said:
Game ran like shit on most computers, half the skills didn't work, upgrading your spells was broken, ...entire game was just fucking awful.

Sounds like you quit in GoD and migrated to EQ2. Like I said... you were an EQ scrub but you're in here talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about concerning GoD and OoW. Love how scrubs reveal themselves with their own words.

Tide27 said:
Blizzard and war craft carried a massive fan base and the game being as good as it was, drove a lot of word of mouth.

Oh you mean word of mouth... like... Furor ranting about PoP and threating migrating to WoW where he was the most influential single person AND lead the most influential guild in EQ?

K... great points totally refuting what I've been saying in this thread, Tide27.

Ambiturner · May 9, 2021

Vanessa said:
"Absolutely zero"

Unreal. But you ARE the prick who argues with everything I post in Politics I think.

Pure ignorance, but I'm happy to educate here.

Ariel was the chief designer of Warcraft III. I seem to have mentioned him in my OP, and you people arguing with me here already mentioned WCIII in conjunction with Diablo was where most of WoWs userbase came from, NOT Everquest (which I'm not disagreeing with and never said). Point is, WCIII released a few months before PoP, in which we know was Furor's breaking point and at which point Tigole was already done with EQ and slid over to Blizzard.

You sound like someone who was either not even playing EQ then or was just some scrub not involved with the high-end game. EQ was raging in its peak... not necessarily in PURE numbers but in terms of loyal, daily playerbase. The numbers I've seen was 4 million copies which was more than Diablo II AND WC III combined. Granted, that accounted for expansions which EQ at its peak had much more of which meant the loyalty was huge. The fact WoW was able to tear a lot of that loyalty free and absorb a fair amount of EQers is huge and a testament to how good WoW was and the buzz it created. Fact is, most of WoW's userbase wasn't EQ, Diablo, OR WC people but just from all sorts of places... old gamers, console gamers, new gamers, young gamers... etc etc. It was a fantastic game. This fact has NOTHING to do with what my OP was stating... that those 3 were extremely influential in its success. It's not just about creating buzz by word of mouth, it was about CREATING and polishing this game to be as good as it was, and YES... I 100% maintain Ariel, Tigole and Furor were absolutely instrumental in that fact.

Hell, ask anyone who played with Ariel, Tigole and Furor and they'd tell you.. they were brilliant.

Again, spoken like someone who either didn't play the game or a scrub not involved with the high-end game. I just made a post this week stating how GoD's end game was incredible with mechanics that totally tossed tank-n-spank into the garbage. OoW had epics 2.0 which made for a plethora of raids for high-end guilds. Every night in OoW was a challenging menu of virtually endless raids.

Again, complete horseshit.

This is true, but I never once touched it. I just, y'know, talked to people and had my finger on the pulse of gaming culture back then... much better than today

Sounds like you quit in GoD and migrated to EQ2. Like I said... you were an EQ scrub but you're in here talking like you know what the fuck you're talking about concerning GoD and OoW. Love how scrubs reveal themselves with their own words.

Oh you mean word of mouth... like... Furor ranting about PoP and threating migrating to WoW where he was the most influential single person AND lead the most influential guild in EQ?

K... great points totally refuting what I've been saying in this thread, Tide27.

You seriously defending the move to shove out an unfinished expansion that was cut in half so they could sell it twice?

Even Smedley said that shitshow is his biggest regret.

Otherwise, the idea that their name recognition was more than a drop in the bucket for WoWs numbers is laughable.

The work they did being of high quality which led to a lot of the success is much more reasonable, but unless you can point to any specifics on what they actually did then it's all just cheerleading

Tide27 · May 9, 2021

Vanessa said:
"Absolutely zero"

Unreal. But you ARE the prick who argues with everything I post in Politics I think.

You sound like someone who was either not even playing EQ then or was just some scrub not involved with the high-end game.

Hell, ask anyone who played with Ariel, Tigole and Furor and they'd tell you.. they were brilliant.

Again, spoken like someone who either didn't play the game or a scrub not involved with the high-end game.

#1 You are not worth my time to even argue with in the politics thread because there isnt any more to add to the conversation since everyone despises your ass in the first place and you dont have any intelligence or substance worth debating with, its all trash.

#2 I was guilded and raided with Fires of Heaven in both Everquests and was the second Sage worldwide worldwide with over 798 world first discoveries , as well as the 2nd Hunter on the server with a Rok bow quest done back during classic and first one server wide in full t2 epic gear. You can shove this " you didnt do shit at high end " and "scrub" shit right up your ass.

By no accounts did most of this take skill either, it took me being injured in the military and be wheelchair ridden for awhile during recovery so I had a assload of time to commit to it.

You are nothing to me, you tranny sack of shit.

Phanton · May 9, 2021

Tide27 said:
Lol

Wows success had absolutely zero to do with any fandom of those players mentioned.

EQ had a small population as mentioned prior, but there were several mitigating factors in Wows success and not a single one was that some of the top raid guild leaders moved over there.

Without making long post about it...in no certain order...

WoW released around the GoD and OoW expansions...both complete garbage. Hell, almost the entire GoD expansion consisted of 4 mobs, and not a single one you could pronounce and entire raid zones that consisted of 2 mobs on repeat, to include the bosses.

Everquest 2 released and was a pile of dog shit. Game ran like shit on most computers, half the skills didn't work, upgrading your spells was broken, ...entire game was just fucking awful.

WoW released in a fairly polished state and had graphics thst looked great for the time and were stylized to the point that most computers could run it with ease. Blizzard and war craft carried a massive fan base and the game being as good as it was, drove a lot of word of mouth.

I mean, I'm sure WoW would still have been successful without swooping the EQ player base. However, I might not have initially (ever?) played WoW had it not been for my trolling of the FOH guild page to see phat loots and unseen raid bosses before they popped up on everlore/allakhazam. That's a very dedicated player base to absorb. Even to this day it's not a question of if I play MMORPGs, but which. That PoTime meltdown (justified) of '14 days or I'm turning this into a WoW fan club site' was fucking great, and I absolutely got on board when a guy that dedicated to EQ tells me this is going to blow it out of the water along with some impressive regular screenshots/gameplay aspects. I don't know what the foot traffic of fohguild was back in 2003-2004(?) but it had to be significant, and at the time a lot of people shared those sentiments with EQ.

Those guys who ran top raiding guilds on EQ were really influental during that era (perhaps similar to Asmongold today? Yes, some people treasure his opinion) and people listened to them.

Narac01 · May 9, 2021

I'll be honest, this is where I first heard about wow, from that rant.

Korzax Stonehammer · May 9, 2021

It's when Furor talked about visiting the bank in game on his tour of blizzard before the game was released. He was impressed.

Mrniceguy · May 10, 2021

I feel like anyone saying "WoW was good/clean/polished on launch" didn't actually play WoW on launch. The game was a pile of shit on launch.

Fadaar · May 10, 2021

Blizzard had less issues with expansion launches than SOE/Verant did with weekly Tuesday downtime. I played, and more importantly was ABLE to play, every WOW expansion on release night just fine. Lag and disconnects sure but it was playable.

Korzax Stonehammer · May 10, 2021

I got a lot of time credited because of unexpected downtime during the first year. The game had game breaking bugs, but for the most part wow was very playable. I never remember running into a queue.

I will be playing both, since I like playing both games for different reasons.

Poll EQ TLP Mischief or WOW Classic TBC?

EQ TLP Mischief or WOW:Classic TBC?

EQ TLP Mischief

WOW Classic TBC

Why not both?

Trakanon Raider

Parody

Ssraeszha Raider

Trakanon Raider

Uncle Tanya

KRA! KRA!

Bronze Baronet of the Realm

Macho Ma'am

Uncle Tanya

Ssraeszha Raider

Bronze Baronet of the Realm

Trakanon Raider

Trakanon Raider

Blackwing Lair Raider

Trakanon Raider

That guy

Blackwing Lair Raider