The RI/BT/Cowboys crew are planning to roll on this server mostly with the intention of being as toxic as possible, there will be batphones, there will be quest/raid mobs kited for hours, there will be casuals crying on the forums, one of the stated goals is to make devs regret implementing FTE, it's gonna be AIDS and I'll probably be giving it a miss.
EQ TLP - Oakwynd (Evolving Ruleset Progression Server)
- Thread starter Zaide
- Start date
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The RI/BT/Cowboys crew are planning to roll on this server mostly with the intention of being as toxic as possible, there will be batphones, there will be quest/raid mobs kited for hours, there will be casuals crying on the forums, one of the stated goals is to make devs regret implementing FTE, it's gonna be AIDS and I'll probably be giving it a miss.
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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Elderan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Thats defiantly going to suck for getting early faction for Tormax head turnins for yelinak.
Rajaah
Honorable Member
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Can you extrapolate Mischief out over all the expansions since PoP? I'm curious as to what the population ebb looks like over time and if my preconceived notions are correct.
Yes, real. I'm mostly bored between 8:30 am to 4:30 pm my time (11 hours ahead of EST) every week day while sitting in a room listening to someone talk for hours. I had been just reading the TIL subreddit to pass time, but ever since the server announcement, reading and posting on the forums has been more entertaining for the time being. I'm not playing on this server, just using it for temporary forum entertainment.
Sleeper does already just kill each person one at a time in a very very slow fashion. When Rampage forced TEB to wake sleeper on Aradune, it took like 10 minutes for Sleeper to kill us off. We had time to do loot, then walk around and watch sleeper do its thing for a bit, and log out our coth bots etc.
I'll still never understand why you post general chat numbers, and even more so why people are dumb enough to take them as gospel lol. The only thing I can think of that general chat numbers is an indication of for a server is how many boxers there are.
During early Kunark on Aradune one of the TEB members created heat map bots. TEB wasn't actually able to use SEQ alerts for raid mob spawns until Luclin due to guilds constantly attempting to poopsock raid mobs. Classic-Kunark it was an every day thing at times, and Velious it would happen maybe once a week. Sometimes guilds would pre-form a raid in some obscure zone ready to port when it spawned, or what Rampage would do with logging raids out and poop-socking from char select. Myself, Yasi and Hicks were getting tired of having to run shifts to watch raid spawns every single day, so this person created this as a possible way to alleviate having to do that.
Basically what it did was bots would be set up in various zones, and every minute it would do a /who. Any person that came up with no value (being anon) the bots would spend the next minute /guildstating all those names. All of that data was then put on to a site that had a map of whatever expansion we were in, and a full list of every guild the bots had found. You could click a guild and it would show you on the map where all of their members were currently, at least for the zones we had the bots in. If at any point a guild had a high concentration of people in one of those zones, it would send us an alert. He went through and added in all of their DZ raid times so it would not send alerts during those times. We mostly just put them in zones that had an AoC.
We never actually fully implemented it, but it was a cool idea and super interesting to see and is one of the ways we saw that in Kunark there were 41 guilds actively raiding.
After about 3 weeks in to Mischief when you were posting outlandish general chat numbers (I've always stated that the vast majority of people don't join general chat, and it's just mostly full of boxes) I decided to run the program with 5 bots on Mischief for 7 days. They joined every general chat channel (had to run 5 because there is a limit to channels you can join, needed 5 to be able to join every channel from base through 20's). Tweaked how the bots operated and they did who's on all of the channels once an hour, which gave you a full list of all names inside that channel.
-The full amount of people, even at peak raid times, was less than what you were posting.
-Simply running a script that negated all duplicates (only counted each person once regardless of how many channels they were in) took the numbers down below 1000.
-One of the days myself and a friend ran around zones looking for anyone 6+ boxing, didn't bother with anything less than that, wrote those names down and negated all of those boxes in the chat channels, and the number fell even lower.
All in all, there were far less than 1000 actual unique players in those general channels. General chat numbers has gotta be one of the worst ways you could ever use to judge population. Most people don't join them, and from the data we found running the bots more than 70% of the numbers are either duplicates or boxes. The more boxers a server has, and the more bot armies a server has, the higher that % is.
Yes I know this is peak degeneracy levels just to look at data, but I'm a degenerate guy.
I also ran this in Velious and Luclin when I did play mischief (had one in Kael in velious, and one in nexus in luclin) just to see numbers on guilds, and it was a lot less than even what some servers have posted on their kills sites which we know isn't indicative of the full amount.
That all being said, yes I would agree that past the standard tlp cycle (classic-pop) Mischief ruleset has the best shot at retaining a higher than average number count in later expansions and is very likely to go all the way to live with a higher number of people than any other TLP. But to say Mischief was even in the top 3 in terms of unique player population classic-pop is insane. I could maybe see debating the 3rd spot, but even then that's questionable.
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This is why we need to hear the nuance of the ruleset sooner than later. I'd like to poll most casuals and ask them what happened more often / what was a more salient memory. Being DPS raced, having mobs stolen, worrying about PLers? Or was it running to the EC tunnel with too big a pull and having high levels help you out? Having a nice person run by and heal you / buff you / slow your mob when you bit off more than you can chew? Are they willing to give up the second half (which to me, is part of the soul of EQ) in order to prevent the first?
This doesn't even touch on intentional griefing. The FTE change, as described, fundamentally strikes at the soul of what makes EQ EQ.
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Yeah, that's cool and all, but how many free Baja blasts did you get during that time period?
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Wait, are you literally taking kills site numbers on guilds to try and prove something but then also same time negating that kills sites had mischief peaking at 14 guilds classic-pop? LOL I mean if you are going to use kill site numbers that is just based on voluntary information, then you also have to say mischief only had 3 raiding guilds in classic....lol
Aradune's peak raid guilds was Kunark at 41. It remained over 30 all the way to PoP. Aradune's peak also had at least 10 guilds with over 100 active raiding members. And 2 guilds with over 200 active raiders. Mischief had what, 1-2 guilds classic-pop with over 100 active members?
Zaide
TLP Idealist
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You probably don’t know this but the internal population data leaked a few months ago.
Also literally no one believes you had 41 guilds actively raiding. Mischief still has AFK kick right now and like two weeks ago they said it was still too populated to remove it. Aradune lost its afk kick in PoP.
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YttriumF
The Karenist Karen
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Critical that their marketing and communication be on point, let the Cultural Revolution begin .....
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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Mahes
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I saw the internal population leak. Even if it's true, not sure what if anything that it proves? It's population numbers based on aradune after little over 2 years, mischief after little over a year, and yeli after a couple months i think? What does that prove? lol to me the most shocking part was that aradune still has over 1000 people after over 2 years. If anything, wait another year and hope for another leak and see where mischief numbers are, that would be more in line with your argument.
You're also arguing something completely different than what I'm stating. Not sure if it's lack of reading comprehension or what. I stated that mischief was not the most popular server during the standard classic-pop TLP cycle. I've never argued it's retention past then. I've even stated multiple times that Mischief ruleset is the best for longevity and I think will see higher numbers than other servers in the later era's. Aradune being a 2 box limit server, was never built to last. Even when I still played Aradune I always thought eventually everyone would transfer off the server after omens. A lot did, but less than I thought. Aradune was not popular because of it's ruleset, it was popular because it launched during the height of covid lockdowns. Yes, some people broke the 2 box rule, but the overwhelming majority did not. The fact that it had as many raid guilds as it did with a 2 box limit just speaks to how many real people played that server. You and many others try to take the population argument as if it's stating that one ruleset is superior to the other, which is completely not the case.
Elderan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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General chat is still a decent accurate way to get how many people play on a server. The number of people who leave general chat across all servers should be similar. Example if 20% of people leave general chats then they will do so on every server they play. This means the numbers from general across all servers its tracked should be a close representation across those servers. When you say real, or unique, or non boxes or bots then you are creating a subset that is impossible to track and any number can be made to sit the narrative thats trying to be created.
It's not the same. Like I said, all general chat is a good indication for is the amount of boxers are on a server, which can highly fluctuate depending on the server and it's ruleset. Some servers have tons of mass boxers, some don't. Some servers have had little boxing and some have had a ton. When you have a server with 5-6 72+ boxers and they put all their characters in the chat channels, that's going to skew the numbers vs a server who didn't have any or very little 72+ boxers.
Elderan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I'd love to hear your explanation of why what I said is a lie or retarded.
Historically speaking, (outside of phinny since there was only a couple guilds on there that didn't post on kill sites) more than 30-35% of raiding guilds do not report to kill sites. The % goes up the more guilds that are reporting. If you see 15 guilds on a kill site listed, it's safe to assume there are actually at least 20. You can probably think to yourself on your current server looking at the kill list of just how many guilds you know of that aren't on there. If 30 guilds reported, safe assumption would be the real number is closer to 40. I know the exact number in Kunark on Aradune because of Belcasor's bot. It was higher than 41 in total, but only that number that were actively raiding.
In terms of me saying how many guilds had over 100, I could name over a handful of guilds just off the top of my head that were larger than 100 at the peak. TEB, Rampage, Toxic Few, Altered Minds, Mediumcore, Legion of the Dead Three, Midnight Redemption, MIM, Triality etc etc
Phinny had very little boxing until PoP. As a 6 boxer myself on there since velious, it was rare to ever see another 6 boxer prior to PoP. It was mostly just people 2 boxing. PoP is around the time the VM workaround went public.
Agnarr the boxing increased significantly compared to Phinny.
Mangler was massive when it came to boxing. Tons of big 72+ boxers, 32 boxers, 20 boxers, 6 boxers etc.
Aradune was a 2 box limit, yes some broke the rules but the overwhelming majority didn't and there were less mass boxers on there than other servers.
Mischief ruleset just incentivizes big boxing and mass boxing because of the random loot in raids.
yelinak i'm not sure, i assume it was probably similar to mangler.