EQ TLP - Vaniki (Level-Locked Progression)

Definitely longer than six minutes when engaged.

Did these two yesterday. Good fun and loot. Officially dipping our toes in Omens.

Always looking for good clerics.

eww luclin models.

Best models. Only low class people use classic models

Xeris said:

Best models. Only low class people use classic models

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There are people who use old models, and there are people who are wrong.

Vicus said:

Always looking for good clerics.

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Why are you always looking? If I consider myself a good cleric and wanted to join, could I be confident that the various tanks etc would actually group with me If I am indeed good? Would I find a bunch of people boxing healers outside raids? Nothing personal whatsoever, I'd say this to any guild. When guilds are always looking for clerics (versus somewhere like selo faceless which usually had too many) I get wary.

Luclin models were one of the worst things to happen to the game.

Some of them arent bad, but some are awful. I hate using them just because of mounts. It looks so dumb with old models standing on the mount.

yerm said:

Would I find a bunch of people boxing healers outside raids?

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Everyone still playing on Vaniki is going to get pushed towards having three characters minimum.

Arbitrary said:

Everyone still playing on Vaniki is going to get pushed towards having three characters minimum.

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So what happens is a lot is guilds scream we want healers (or we want x that is never tank) and then when those people wanna do difficult content, they cant. The boxed notraidgeared knight or the mage pet doesn't cut it. So every year we see "recruiting clerics" and eventually these guilds, usually led by over half tank leadership, fail.

So yeah. If you need clerics, is it gonna be worth it?

yerm said:

So what happens is a lot is guilds scream we want healers (or we want x that is never tank) and then when those people wanna do difficult content, they cant. The boxed notraidgeared knight or the mage pet doesn't cut it. So every year we see "recruiting clerics" and eventually these guilds, usually led by over half tank leadership, fail.

So yeah. If you need clerics, is it gonna be worth it?

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I see what you're saying. You can box a support class or two as a tank and get most of what you need out of them but when the healer sets up their boxes the reverse is not true.

I've said to myself for years and years on these TLPs that if you intend to box, and the guild you're in has some kind of main/alt system for DKP use or whatever, main the tank. If you have a sweet geared tank it's going to make everything else so much easier.

yerm said:

So what happens is a lot is guilds scream we want healers (or we want x that is never tank) and then when those people wanna do difficult content, they cant. The boxed notraidgeared knight or the mage pet doesn't cut it. So every year we see "recruiting clerics" and eventually these guilds, usually led by over half tank leadership, fail.

So yeah. If you need clerics, is it gonna be worth it?

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Yep, Yerm knows the pain. Every TLP guild wants Clerics for days, but most do little to help / accommodate them. Honestly on Selo we kinda lucked into our Cleric situation, I massively over-recruited Clerics, and we got lucky in that a core group of them stayed for almost 2 whole years. Most of them had some sort of static / support system in place to help them get stuff done.

If you don't have that it's an incredibly terrible class to main, you cannot effectively solo anything, and the way EQ works in later eras, if you box a tank alt for out of raid content--that alt is often worse than a Necro pet unless you've been able to acquire a significant set of raid quality gear. It's honestly kind of a shitty situation, and it's one reason I've always tried to have at least SOME avenue for people to get alt gear in any guild I've ran. If you don't allow alt gear, the classes that are High Raid Value but poor as an anchor out of raid, get put in a really bad position. A CLR is not even an ideal group healer, but are very necessary for raiding, so not only are you maining a healing class that can't anchor a box group very well, you're not even playing the healing class that is better at group content (SHM due to buffs / slows, dps etc.)

I've actually had this argument in most of my guilds too--someone will eventually see a CLR looting raid gear on their alt WAR or SHD, and make the comment "that alt is useless to the guild, we'll never use them for raid tanking, should we even allow alts like that?" If your answer is no--okay, then you need to obligate your raid tanks to group with the raid clerics X number of hours per week, because otherwise you're telling CLR to show up and heal, get loot that mostly doesn't power them up meaningfully, and have zero ability to function outside of a raid? Fuck that.

Tuco said:

I've never played with you (that I can remember, lol), but the trope of a healer who is needed in raids and shunned outside of them is so common in EQ and other games. Best thing a guild can do is push people to carry them in groups. Best thing a player can do is box a cleric and make a group capable main.

What benefit is there really to maining a cleric?

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As someone who usually mains a rogue and is maining a cleric on Vaniki, I can confirm its way harder.

Or just play on mischief and even your alts will be decked out in bis or near bis by the end of every expansion even without going the baz route

Tuco said:

I've never played with you (that I can remember, lol), but the trope of a healer who is needed in raids and shunned outside of them is so common in EQ and other games. Best thing a guild can do is push people to carry them in groups. Best thing a player can do is box a cleric and make a group capable main.

What benefit is there really to maining a cleric?

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I think we only played together on some self-imposed restricted tlp like thing WAY back. But anyway. The trope of WE NEED CLERICS is as common as they come, so I respond with the PLAYING ONE IS SHIT response because both tend to happen. If you are constantly missing clerics and always trying to get them and/or never able to keep them, you're probably not a place someone would want to main a cleric.

Ritley said:

Or just play on mischief and even your alts will be decked out in bis or near bis by the end of every expansion even without going the baz route

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Yeah, the other option is play somewhere like rizlona and just not have nontank mains. There's workarounds like that, but, this is the vaniki thread!

IMO if "actually play the game with your guildmates and not solo/boxing except on raids" is an option, it's usually a good option.