EQ TLP - Vaniki (Level-Locked Progression)
- Thread starter Zaide
- Start date
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yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 6,537
- 16,749
Unfortunately not only is this true but so is the opposite. A lot of eq players are hyper aspy types who insist on doing things in some penultimate fashion. Then you have autists like me who refuse to give a fuck, and autists like zaide logging it all for future drama.
While it's PROBABLY the case that zog was being douchey... I kinda feel for him even if he was. I have seen way too many guilds that waste time trying to meticulously do things, or explain encounters for longer than it'd take to literally try it and see it, and stuff like that. I can totally imagine the guy mezzing shit and mezzing shit and mezzing shit over and over while the raid leader is yammering on about positioning shit on a hill apex, and him yelling "dude who cares lets fucking GO man!" and the ocd raid leader being perturbed that they didn't do the encounter correctly.
Tredge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 1,021
- 4,872
Vaniki is the best TLP in a very long time. Easily my favorite so far - and I was very skeptical going into it.
1. I was bored with the classic start. Starting with GoD there are so many different options for leveling. Who knew Natimbi, Dulak, and warrens would be so populated.
2. The server is #3 in overall population this week. Our guild had to split hate because we had too many people even when dropping boxes from raid.
3. The gear chase is so much fun. Its not so much a challenge server to me - more of a loot chase. Epics at 40 are cool, but so many clickies that are OP at lower levels. The soft caps are raised too so AC is king right now.
4. Double loot is the way to go. I didnt like the free trade loot as much. Ruined progression for me. But getting double drops for epics or dragons - means half the raid grinding required.
5. XP death is inconsequential right now. I never died so much and havent cared a bit. 5% xp loss is back in a kill or two. Clerics cant rez past 60% but most of the time I am fine with 0% or no res at all. Pushing the boundaries isn't as painful as I thought it would be at 40.
6. OOC regen is a game changer. Full wipes are back to full buff in a few minutes.
7. Grouping is quick with easy ports from PoK.
I'm having a blast on this server. Not sure it will last. but right now is a good time to dive in. Getting to 40 just takes a couple of days.
1. I was bored with the classic start. Starting with GoD there are so many different options for leveling. Who knew Natimbi, Dulak, and warrens would be so populated.
2. The server is #3 in overall population this week. Our guild had to split hate because we had too many people even when dropping boxes from raid.
3. The gear chase is so much fun. Its not so much a challenge server to me - more of a loot chase. Epics at 40 are cool, but so many clickies that are OP at lower levels. The soft caps are raised too so AC is king right now.
4. Double loot is the way to go. I didnt like the free trade loot as much. Ruined progression for me. But getting double drops for epics or dragons - means half the raid grinding required.
5. XP death is inconsequential right now. I never died so much and havent cared a bit. 5% xp loss is back in a kill or two. Clerics cant rez past 60% but most of the time I am fine with 0% or no res at all. Pushing the boundaries isn't as painful as I thought it would be at 40.
6. OOC regen is a game changer. Full wipes are back to full buff in a few minutes.
7. Grouping is quick with easy ports from PoK.
I'm having a blast on this server. Not sure it will last. but right now is a good time to dive in. Getting to 40 just takes a couple of days.
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Rajaah
Honorable Member
- 12,664
- 16,766
Nope, they've continued to rule the roost right up to the present day. A bunch of servers are getting merged into Vox in like a week and everyone from Phinny will be on a regular Live server at that point by default. OGC is also ahead of every other guild on the servers being merged, as far as I know.
If anything, OGC is looking for new live guilds to assimilate, like The Borg.
Rajaah
Honorable Member
- 12,664
- 16,766
I was kidding about it being a personal attack. Though it did describe me to an extent.
People who serial reroll and leave at the same time every server (PoP usually) annoy me too. All the best parts of the game are after that IMO, though I have a soft spot for classic/kunark too.
Recruitment is my main concern when it comes to server population, and the reason I care about it. OGC has had basically no one to recruit for about a year now. The last 3 other guilds on Phinny were Echoes of Elysium (collapsed), Resolute (collapsed), and Rosengard (left for another server).
Of course, as the population dried up, the family guilds lost their recruitment pools, and then as those guilds folded, the higher-tier guilds lost their recruiting pools, and as those guilds folded, the top guild lost its recruiting pool.
So once all those guilds were gone and OGC assimilated who it could, that was basically it for recruits. At that point it was just the one remaining guild versus time and attrition.
The fact that we're still doing current content with 45-person raids (more like 35 if you factor out boxes) and ahead of anyone on the servers we're merging into is a testament to how everyone here works their ass off. However we'd be having a much easier time on a server with a healthy pop, and if this upcoming merger weren't a thing, it's safe to say OGC would cross a threshold at some point where attrition prevented any further raiding of current targets. At that point the server would dry up the rest of the way, regardless of Dima's efforts to keep things afloat.
I suppose at that point one can always just...move to another server, but most of us stuck around because we like this one. Regardless, this stuff is why I mull over server population sizes. But you're right, chances are Vaniki will be viable for a while, probably well beyond the time I'm on there.
WorryPlaysGames
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 537
- 311
Talking to people from the 2nd raid, they never even had a real chance to kill Inny. Then they hit the 11pm “let’s all quit” time and it was over.
No one knew how to corner him, pets went in on pull, healers out of range…
Disaster. You know they are breaking up raid 1 next week to even it out.
Zog
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,810
- 2,338
I didn't know how bad it was until the rage tells started pouring in later... Im assuming they still get DKP for not killing Inny?
Cupcaek
Molten Core Raider
- 761
- 494
We were watching the stream of it and like 5 seconds in you knew they were wiping. It was pretty funny.
Sieger
Trakanon Raider
- 343
- 395
Yeah, to be candid OGC should have strongly considered telling all of its members like a year ago to save DBC for 3 months and mass transfer to a higher population live server. I also think it is a mistake for OGC to passively go to the server merge destination (Vox), that is one of the worst live servers for people and raiders in general.
Being on sort of a limbo server you guys haven't really experienced the full live community yet. Merging or absorbing other guilds is not going to be a thing. There are going to be guilds on your destination server that are 10 years old or more. Live guilds do not merge with other guilds very frequently, and many live guilds are happy to fall below the threshold of raid viability to keep their independent guild tags intact. Live guild leaders are almost all in what I call the "old EQ" mindset, these are like Condo Board President types who get most of their joy in life from setting petty rules and lording over a little fief, they would rather die than give up that power and merge into another guild.
Another thing that won't be very common on live is people transferring from other servers to join you. I had assumed this could be a bigger source of recruits, but I think aside from the top 2-3 guilds this just doesn't happen that often. We've had a few people app us from other servers and transfer to join, but live is just a different animal of player, many live players have deep connections to their server community going back literally 20 years, and they just aren't going to leave their current server (this is why it is not ideal to be on a low population server.)
What you will see as a new raid guild on the server is you'll shake loose some old raider accounts who have been rattling around in the attic, we definitely got a lot of recruits in our first three months on live who were raiders that had been kinda semi-actively raiding for years previously. Some worked out well, some didn't.
Another big thing on live is a lot of the serious raider base isn't raiding with one guild, many people have multiple raid guilds they operate with, sometimes on multiple servers. This can be jarring to a TLP guild, but generally speaking you shouldn't hesitate to accept recruits that openly admit they raid with other characters on other guilds. That is very, very common on live now because some people really like raiding and want to raid 4-5 days a week but most guilds raid 1-2 nights a week.
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Keystone
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 470
- 256
I 100% would be playing if they did a vaniki level cap thing but started in classic, or kunark, or even velious, just don't care for the later stuff and dont' know enough about it to have the nostalgia
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Sieger
Trakanon Raider
- 343
- 395
Vaniki's big issue is that it combines two concepts that don't necessarily need to be linked--an underleveled "challenge" server, and the concept of "level locked" progression instead of expansion locked.
I've always thought it'd be at least "interesting" to do a server that unlocks the level cap at the same set points of expansions...so 50, 60, 65, 70 etc. But, don't have any content locked. So it'd basically be a live server just with a steadily increased leveling cap. The reason that always seemed interesting to me is because obviously you'd be able to get crazy out of era stuff, and it'd be fun to see "okay, at a level cap of 50 but with access to all kinds of crazy power creep stuff, what silly things can we do?" Rinse repeat as you level up.
The idea of doing a "challenge server" where you set the level cap to some weird low number relative to the current content, then add in challenge achievements...I'm a little skeptical of that as a concept. However I think it could have been okay, but the big issues are that the rewards are not very appealing, and the challenges weren't well thought out past a couple cycles of level increases. On top of that they designed specific rules for Vaniki which mean it will require a lot of "fiddling" and fixing from devs.
Note that from a perspective of business, I don't think any of these are "great" ideas. So far there has never been a challenge server that DPG/DBG seem to consider a business success. I think the reason is precisely what someone said earlier--the reason Mischief is super popular is because it is the most casual friendly server ever because of massive, massive increase in loot availability.
There is a big class of EQ TLPer who simply quit the first time there is any resistance. Oh, finding groups now requires more effort than typing "LFG" into chat? TIme to move on. Ah, my gear isn't good enough to easily do this, time to move on etc. Mischief "delays" those pain points longer, which keeps casuals playing longer.
Doing purely the challenge server idea but not the level locked idea, which is what Keystone is more suggesting, probably would be even less popular than Vaniki just because there is no content. With all the stuff they added to Vaniki, if you didn't make later era stuff available for a challenge the server would be omega easy and uninteresting, just because of how broken being able to stun, fear, etc raid bosses is + uber powerful charm pets.
I've always thought it'd be at least "interesting" to do a server that unlocks the level cap at the same set points of expansions...so 50, 60, 65, 70 etc. But, don't have any content locked. So it'd basically be a live server just with a steadily increased leveling cap. The reason that always seemed interesting to me is because obviously you'd be able to get crazy out of era stuff, and it'd be fun to see "okay, at a level cap of 50 but with access to all kinds of crazy power creep stuff, what silly things can we do?" Rinse repeat as you level up.
The idea of doing a "challenge server" where you set the level cap to some weird low number relative to the current content, then add in challenge achievements...I'm a little skeptical of that as a concept. However I think it could have been okay, but the big issues are that the rewards are not very appealing, and the challenges weren't well thought out past a couple cycles of level increases. On top of that they designed specific rules for Vaniki which mean it will require a lot of "fiddling" and fixing from devs.
Note that from a perspective of business, I don't think any of these are "great" ideas. So far there has never been a challenge server that DPG/DBG seem to consider a business success. I think the reason is precisely what someone said earlier--the reason Mischief is super popular is because it is the most casual friendly server ever because of massive, massive increase in loot availability.
There is a big class of EQ TLPer who simply quit the first time there is any resistance. Oh, finding groups now requires more effort than typing "LFG" into chat? TIme to move on. Ah, my gear isn't good enough to easily do this, time to move on etc. Mischief "delays" those pain points longer, which keeps casuals playing longer.
Doing purely the challenge server idea but not the level locked idea, which is what Keystone is more suggesting, probably would be even less popular than Vaniki just because there is no content. With all the stuff they added to Vaniki, if you didn't make later era stuff available for a challenge the server would be omega easy and uninteresting, just because of how broken being able to stun, fear, etc raid bosses is + uber powerful charm pets.
- 1
Ecko
Trakanon Raider
- 72
- 8
We've cleared vox, naggy, hate, inny, fear and upto isle 4 of Sky so far (stopped at isle 4 as was nearly end of official raid time and didn't want to wait for KoS timer, but can send a couple of groups up to start that timer next time and do the whole thing) and without MoTM even at 40 things just melt.
We've also attempted Severilous and Vindi, got them to 67% and 75% respectively. We knew going into them it was gonna be a wipe, but sure was fun trying. Even getting to Vindi was fun at 40. Much more fun for most of us than the easy classic stuff.
Whilst I agree there are those that don't want challenge as such, i do also believe there are enough people sick of the classic-velious treadmill and want something a bit more of a challenge. Enough to keep the server viable. I tend to go on if there is a healthy Euro presence, the server usually is fine.
It's not just about raids, a lot of people in our guild are getting epic shit done, One rogue already has completed his epic, we've got a shaman just needing the last fight, a SK needs soul leech and Lhranc to complete (lhranc at 40 would be fun! Maybe doable since he regens so slowly, would be a bind rush for sure) and we have clerics getting up there too.
People are finding their own challenges and limits it seems, then pushing those limits each day, which is nice. Plenty of stuff to do!
We've also attempted Severilous and Vindi, got them to 67% and 75% respectively. We knew going into them it was gonna be a wipe, but sure was fun trying. Even getting to Vindi was fun at 40. Much more fun for most of us than the easy classic stuff.
Whilst I agree there are those that don't want challenge as such, i do also believe there are enough people sick of the classic-velious treadmill and want something a bit more of a challenge. Enough to keep the server viable. I tend to go on if there is a healthy Euro presence, the server usually is fine.
It's not just about raids, a lot of people in our guild are getting epic shit done, One rogue already has completed his epic, we've got a shaman just needing the last fight, a SK needs soul leech and Lhranc to complete (lhranc at 40 would be fun! Maybe doable since he regens so slowly, would be a bind rush for sure) and we have clerics getting up there too.
People are finding their own challenges and limits it seems, then pushing those limits each day, which is nice. Plenty of stuff to do!
Ecko
Trakanon Raider
- 72
- 8
On the plus side, I've managed to skip a fair bit of the SK epic, did the faction skip then looted blood and heart from Kryanna as a guildy SK got up to that part and was double drops, turned those in for the dark shroud then looted head and mummy wrappings from Gholnor, so can get will of innoruuk when marl respawns, heh.
Just need to get lucky on soul leech and a blade of abrogation now!
Just need to get lucky on soul leech and a blade of abrogation now!
Ecko
Trakanon Raider
- 72
- 8
From what the people are saying that have spoken to Ngreth about the updated rewards, as long as you're at the level of the achievement you can get it. For example for the CT fight, once the cap goes up you can have a bunch of higher levels do the fight and as long as you're 40 on your character, you should get the achievement/claim reward
Apparently this was the compromise on not having the /claims as 999 claimable. So you can do the challenge on alts and get another claim for another server.
Wouldn't take it as gospel until officially announced though.
Apparently this was the compromise on not having the /claims as 999 claimable. So you can do the challenge on alts and get another claim for another server.
Wouldn't take it as gospel until officially announced though.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 47,814
- 82,235
This is a funny paradigm on live servers. Many of the best and most dedicated raiders in top-tier guilds either play EQ as a side-hobby or spend more time raiding in some mid-tier guild. There's just not much to do for them between raid unlocks/expansion releases.
WorryPlaysGames
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 537
- 311
So when are Vaniki people rerolling on Yelinak?
Also, Bees might die tonight! We are OW zerging bees. And we might even bring our SoI with us! Going all out on this kill.
Also, Bees might die tonight! We are OW zerging bees. And we might even bring our SoI with us! Going all out on this kill.
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Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 29,584
- 81,954
The pro strat is to go and farm up the wasp and bixie banestrikes ahead of time for the big dps. Even Wizards get in on the action.