Final Fantasy 16

Chris · Sep 21, 2020

Merrith said:
Is that lore twisting a bit to equate the fayth of Bahamut into Bahamut itself?

I think it's trying to make a point quickly without delving into the deep lore of a game.

I guess Braska's Final Aeon isn't Jecht by that logic too.

Merrith · Sep 21, 2020

Chris said:
I think it's trying to make a point quickly without delving into the deep lore of a game.

I guess Braska's Final Aeon isn't Jecht by that logic too.

That's not exactly the same thing, since technically the "fayth" for Sin were all the surviving citizens of the old Zanarkand that Yu Yevon transformed, no?

Chris · Sep 21, 2020

Merrith said:
That's not exactly the same thing, since technically the "fayth" for Sin were all the surviving citizens of the old Zanarkand that Yu Yevon transformed, no?

I'm not sure how the people on Gagazet summoning Dream Zanarkand are relevent.

You don't know the deep lore, just stop

Merrith · Sep 21, 2020

Chris said:
I'm not sure how the people on Gagazet summoning Dream Zanarkand are relevent.

You don't know the deep lore, just stop

They're relevant in that they act as the "fayth" for sin, the same way the boy is the "fayth" for Bahamut. Are you claiming then that the people at Gagazet are the human forms of Sin?

Please, educate me on the deep lore if that comparison is incorrect.

Chris · Sep 21, 2020

Merrith said:
They're relevant in that they act as the "fayth" for sin, the same way the boy is the "fayth" for Bahamut. Are you claiming then that the people at Gagazet are the human forms of Sin?

Please, educate me on the deep lore if that comparison is incorrect.

I thought you were making a point about Jecht.

I'm sure that everyone else is loving this autistic conversation.

Merrith · Sep 21, 2020

Chris said:
I thought you were making a point about Jecht.

I'm sure that everyone else is loving this autistic conversation.

No, you made the original point about the human form of Bahamut, and when I asked, you identified the boy who is the fayth for it. Then I was curious if you felt all the surviving citizens of Zanarkand that Yu Yevon transformed into the fayth for Sin were considered the "human form" of Sin. It didn't seem to match up.

Yeah I'm sure most don't give a fuck about X's lore. I don't really care to dig down to the finest details, it just felt like labeling the fayth for an aeon as its "human form" was a bit of a stretch, but I was hoping for a convincing answer either way.

Chris · Sep 21, 2020

Merrith said:
No, you made the original point about the human form of Bahamut, and when I asked, you identified the boy who is the fayth for it. Then I was curious if you felt all the surviving citizens of Zanarkand that Yu Yevon transformed into the fayth for Sin were considered the "human form" of Sin. It didn't seem to match up.

Yeah I'm sure most don't give a fuck about X's lore. I don't really care to dig down to the finest details, it just felt like labeling the fayth for an aeon as its "human form" was a bit of a stretch, but I was hoping for a convincing answer either way.

It's pretty clear in the game that Fayth are turned to stone and chiselled into the shape of the summon. They are the same being projected in a different form.

Jecht is the human form of Sin and you see Sin do things Jecht liked like listening to the Hymn of Fayth.

The Dream Zanarkand summoners... that's something else and the weirdest and most confusing thing in the game. Who fucking knows. Current theory I belive is that it isn't inside Sin (which is what I thought) but is a physical location in the southern ocean which Sin guards. I could be wrong.

Anyway... my point is that while summons are important to the plot of several games, the specific summons don't tend to be anything other than single appearance minor characters. Them being used as major characters in FF16 is a potential sign of the game not being very original and designed in a board room looking for nostalgia points.

Merrith · Sep 21, 2020

Chris said:
Anyway... my point is that while summons are important to the plot of several games, the specific summons don't tend to be anything other than single appearance minor characters. Them being used as major characters in FF16 is a potential sign of the game not being very original and designed in a board room looking for nostalgia points.

I got the sense that the whole "Shiva-Dominant" could refer to a person that the eikon has semi taken over/possessed to a degree. Which is definitely a theme in XIV so it's not that surprising this team might try to build off of a similar idea for a new story.

As for whether that makes it unoriginal or looking for nostalgia points, given that they pretty much always are a part of most every FF game, along with "Cid", chocobos, etc...guess it just depends no personal preference for how much each person would like them to be a part of or focus of the story. I'd agree if they go too close to the themes from XIV it's going to feel very much like previously tread over ground.

Pyros · Sep 21, 2020

Merrith said:
I got the sense that the whole "Shiva-Dominant" could refer to a person that the eikon has semi taken over/possessed to a degree. Which is definitely a theme in XIV so it's not that surprising this team might try to build off of a similar idea for a new story.

As for whether that makes it unoriginal or looking for nostalgia points, given that they pretty much always are a part of most every FF game, along with "Cid", chocobos, etc...guess it just depends no personal preference for how much each person would like them to be a part of or focus of the story. I'd agree if they go too close to the themes from XIV it's going to feel very much like previously tread over ground.

It's not really a theme in XIV, it's somewhat of an exception on how the primals work. They are basically summoned out of strong feelings, generally by several people but in some rare cases by a single person and they are given form based on collective subconscious. Shiva isn't tied to a single person either, nor are some of the later primals that are summoned by taking possession of a body, it's just a way to channel the aether and give it form more easily and without requiring as many crystals.

The XVI take isn't really the same. Granted, it's not an original take either, it's an overdone anime trope, people having some hidden entity living within them giving them huge powers and being used for war. Hell you don't even have to go for obscure anime here, this is the basic of Naruto's story. You just replace the tailed beasts by FF summons and ninjas by knights.

I wouldn't really extrapolate too much about the story based on this limited trailer though. Chris was bitching it wasn't "FF enough" but the big twists are never revealed in the trailers especially the very first trailer. For all we know this is the first 5mins of a game then you get hit by a truck, meet God and are sent to a VRMMO world where you begin your adventure to become the best mailman in town.

Merrith · Sep 21, 2020

Pyros said:
It's not really a theme in XIV, it's somewhat of an exception on how the primals work. They are basically summoned out of strong feelings, generally by several people but in some rare cases by a single person and they are given form based on collective subconscious. Shiva isn't tied to a single person either, nor are some of the later primals that are summoned by taking possession of a body, it's just a way to channel the aether and give it form more easily and without requiring as many crystals.

The XVI take isn't really the same. Granted, it's not an original take either, it's an overdone anime trope, people having some hidden entity living within them giving them huge powers and being used for war. Hell you don't even have to go for obscure anime here, this is the basic of Naruto's story. You just replace the tailed beasts by FF summons and ninjas by knights.

I wouldn't really extrapolate too much about the story based on this limited trailer though. Chris was bitching it wasn't "FF enough" but the big twists are never revealed in the trailers especially the very first trailer. For all we know this is the first 5mins of a game then you get hit by a truck, meet God and are sent to a VRMMO world where you begin your adventure to become the best mailman in town.

They've definitely gone more that direction since ARR release with Shiva stuff, Tsukuyomi, and Ryne again taking on Shiva aspect with the Eden raid in this expansion. I don't think it is exactly the same, but potentially a somewhat similar concept. Then again we don't really have any idea how exactly they will work in XVI, I was just kind of guessing based on the wording and look of the Shiva incarnation versus what appeared to be a raw Titan eikon summon. Also with the Phoenix v. Ifrit stuff at the end.

Agree completely that it's pretty hard to draw any hard conclusions from just that initial trailer. Everyone has different thoughts on what is "FF enough", so I don't any of us take Chris' word as gospel there (no offense Chris).

Phazael · Sep 21, 2020

FF4 had Summons as major plot points, as did FF6 to a lesser degree. Having said that, if they have such a fucking hardon to make an action RPG they should use FF12 as the template for that instead of trying to make Generic Action Single Character RPG in FF Setting. The setting at least looks like a classic FF one (reminds me of the high res movies they added to the re-release of FF6) but I am not touching anything Square again unless they manage to put out two games that are not faggot fest MMO wannabees in a row.

Chris · Sep 21, 2020

Merrith said:
Agree completely that it's pretty hard to draw any hard conclusions from just that initial trailer. Everyone has different thoughts on what is "FF enough", so I don't any of us take Chris' word as gospel there (no offense Chris).

Yeah I'm just expressing a worry about a boring trailer and reliance on existing series tropes instead of new content, I hope I'm wrong.

I just wanted to being up how amazing previous trailers have been.

Hateyou · Sep 21, 2020

Chris said:
Anyway... my point is that while summons are important to the plot of several games, the specific summons don't tend to be anything other than single appearance minor characters. Them being used as major characters in FF16 is a potential sign of the game not being very original and designed in a board room looking for nostalgia points.

So you’re saying that summons aren’t major characters in the 15 prior games, and they will be in this one, somehow that is not original? What?

Rude · Sep 21, 2020

Hateyou said:
So you’re saying that summons aren’t major characters in the 15 prior games, and they will be in this one, somehow that is not original? What?

Same concept as 9 I would imagine. Mostly designed as a reaction to 8. Game was good until disc 4, then it went to shit.

Merrith · Sep 21, 2020

Rude said:
Same concept as 9 I would imagine. Mostly designed as a reaction to 8. Game was good until disc 4, then it went to shit.

Kinda lost steam well before disc 4, honestly. Soon as you left the first continent slowed down a lot.

Hateyou · Sep 22, 2020

Rude said:
Same concept as 9 I would imagine. Mostly designed as a reaction to 8. Game was good until disc 4, then it went to shit.

I feel asleep twice while trying to rescue someone in space or something. First time I’d ever fallen asleep while playing a game sober. All I remember was being in a space suit. Haven’t touched it since.

Rude · Sep 22, 2020

Hateyou said:
I feel asleep twice while trying to rescue someone in space or something. First time I’d ever fallen asleep while playing a game sober. All I remember was being in a space suit. Haven’t touched it since.

No argument from me. 8 was AIDS. I'm just saying 9 was made as a reaction to 8 for nostalgia feels. And it ultimately sucked too. Although it was at least a better experience for most of the game. 15 is super AIDS, so we'll see how the reaction is with this game whenever they release more info. I'm not optimistic as the combat looks like their standard garbage, the world design will be generic for these type of games, and honestly they haven't had a good story for almost twenty years. I don't really give a shit about 4k 120hz or whatever the pretty benchmark is for visuals, so it looking nice is mostly meaningless from my point of view.

I don't plan on buying it unless it knocks the shoes off the gaming community. Corporate reviews are fucking worthless and I still regret spending 20 dollars on FF15. Could have bought some food or beer that would have been more satisfying.

Fadaar · Sep 22, 2020

Hateyou said:
I feel asleep twice while trying to rescue someone in space or something. First time I’d ever fallen asleep while playing a game sober. All I remember was being in a space suit. Haven’t touched it since.

Immediately after that is when it really opens up since you get the airship.

ZyyzYzzy · Sep 22, 2020

Not excited for FFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Chris · Sep 22, 2020

Rude said:
No argument from me. 8 was AIDS. I'm just saying 9 was made as a reaction to 8 for nostalgia feels.

Yestersay I saw a YouTube video which said that they made FF8 and FF9 at the same time and actually started FF9 first. They were released one year apart.

So FF9 was actually a reaction to FF7 and it was up in the air if it would be called FF9 or be called something else as it was designed as a nostalgia spinoff.

Another crazy thing is that FF9, FF10 and FF11 were announced on the same day with FF9 released that year.

The obsession with graphics has really slowed game development down. I don't like it.

Final Fantasy 16

Potato del Grande

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Potato del Grande

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Potato del Grande

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Potato del Grande

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard

Potato del Grande

Not Great, Not Terrible

Potato del Grande

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Not Great, Not Terrible

Potato del Grande

That guy

RIP USA

Potato del Grande