Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Lodi · Jan 14, 2019

sleevedraw said:
lolwut

BLM and Fire IV.
PLD and Passage of Arms.
The list goes on.

This game has many weaknesses, but flare and visual variety are certainly not among them.

I see a lot of particles, and that's cool, but none of it really feels that great to do. It doesn't feel that great to cast spells, so the spells aren't all that impressive to me.

Asian games tend to over do it with the polygons, yet totally lack character. It's a huge part of why Korean MMOs are such shit(BUTBUTUE4OMG). Going as far as possible with the flamboyance does not a good game make.

This extends outward too. The visuals are all costly looking, with all kinds of rigging, but very paint-by-number stylistically. Everything is too glossy.

I think it's more the combat than anything. The mannequin-like character models don't help either. Everything just feels so locked down, slow and stiff.

Give me the crafting and housing system of FF14, mixed with the combat of WoW, and I'd be very content.

Merrith · Jan 14, 2019

Lodi said:
I see a lot of particles, and that's cool, but none of it really feels that great to do. It doesn't feel that great to cast spells, so the spells aren't all that impressive to me.

Asian games tend to over do it with the polygons, yet totally lack character. It's a huge part of why Korean MMOs are such shit(BUTBUTUE4OMG). Going as far as possible with the flamboyance does not a good game make.

This extends outward too. The visuals are all costly looking, with all kinds of rigging, but very paint-by-number stylistically. Everything is too glossy.

I think it's more the combat than anything. The mannequin-like character models don't help either. Everything just feels so locked down, slow and stiff.

Give me the crafting and housing system of FF14, mixed with the combat of WoW, and I'd be very content.

Guess I'll have to disagree. Especially with changes WoW made to some stuff off GC, FF14 combat feels fine to me with all the off global stuff to weave in. Feels like you're trying too hard to downplay the visual effects as well. You can break down WoW's stuff to "lotsa particles" if you wanted to, but 14's stuff looks visually superior by multiple degrees for me.

I'll grant some of the "feel" of combat will vary depending on your class (and spec in WoW), but as far as character models go the ones in WoW still feel far more stiff and unrealistic compared to 14. I remember coming back to WoW in Legion and drawing my bow on my hunter, it was laughable how stiff and 2008 it looked compared to 14.

Lodi · Jan 14, 2019

Merrith said:
Guess I'll have to disagree. Especially with changes WoW made to some stuff off GC, FF14 combat feels fine to me with all the off global stuff to weave in. Feels like you're trying too hard to downplay the visual effects as well. You can break down WoW's stuff to "lotsa particles" if you wanted to, but 14's stuff looks visually superior by multiple degrees for me.

I'll grant some of the "feel" of combat will vary depending on your class (and spec in WoW), but as far as character models go the ones in WoW still feel far more stiff and unrealistic compared to 14. I remember coming back to WoW in Legion and drawing my bow on my hunter, it was laughable how stiff and 2008 it looked compared to 14.

WoW models are lower res, but there is FAR more diversity of models and animations. The characters don't all look like super models either, and each offer a far more unique charm. FF14 is more derivative and way too clean. I'm talking less about the motion capture and poly count and more about the actual style and game-feel.

When I connect with something in combat in WoW, it feels much more gratifying. The way I move about the world and in combat feels very natural. I think it's a combination of the GCD thing and how FF14 takes the no fluff spells thing to an even further extreme than WoW did.

Anyway, it's mostly subjective stuff. I've never enjoyed modern Asian art in games so that was already a huge ding against it for me. What I do like about this game is how much more you can just grind at your own pace and for a direct currency, unlike WoW where the loot system is completely fucked.

I just wish I had a class to feel excited about so I could get in to it more.

a_skeleton_03 · Jan 14, 2019

Yeah I just hit 70 this weekend and all and that’s a decent change for BLM from what I could tell.

I will do a dummy tonight and see what my turret is. I also need to figure out the best meld, I can afford the materia just need to know what to do. I am hearing it’s just SS or Crit.

Merrith · Jan 14, 2019

Lodi said:
WoW models are lower res, but there is FAR more diversity of models and animations. The characters don't all look like super models either, and each offer a far more unique charm. FF14 is more derivative and way too clean. I'm talking less about the motion capture and poly count and more about the actual style and game-feel.

When I connect with something in combat in WoW, it feels much more gratifying. The way I move about the world and in combat feels very natural. I think it's a combination of the GCD thing and how FF14 takes the no fluff spells thing to an even further extreme than WoW did.

Anyway, it's mostly subjective stuff. I've never enjoyed modern Asian art in games so that was already a huge ding against it for me. What I do like about this game is how much more you can just grind at your own pace and for a direct currency, unlike WoW where the loot system is completely fucked.

I just wish I had a class to feel excited about so I could get in to it more.

You basically explain what you're saying in the first 2 paragraphs with your 3rd. If you're already against it to begin with, that's just how it's going to be. If I'm comparing pure button pushing from Legion combat in WoW versus 14, I like the slightly faster pace of WoW's. But the look of the combat and effects, 14 gets the nod 100%. The movement and such in wow hasn't felt natural in a long time to me, they simply nailed the smoothness of response time in their button pushing. How you do everything on screen doesn't look nearly as good as just having abilities go off as quickly as they do as you're inputting commands. Maybe it's just b/c I got tired of the art style and it really hasn't felt updated in 10 years at this point.

I love the BRD class in 14, not sure what you're playing. But I pretty much always play that ranged dps class, Hunter in WoW, Archer/Bard in 14.

Asmadai · Jan 14, 2019

Yeah, I can't tell if that guy is a troll or what, but if it's not, god damn dude.... That's a serious case of WoW namebrand rose tinted glasses.

You lost me at "WoW character models are better."

Lodi · Jan 14, 2019

Asmadai said:
Yeah, I can't tell if that guy is a troll or what, but if it's not, god damn dude.... That's a serious case of WoW namebrand rose tinted glasses.

You lost me at "WoW character models are better."

I'm actually completely cynical about WoW at this point, but I can't deny that they do combat and art better than anyone else. I'm guessing you're the type that thinks games like BDO look good, though. I do not. The weeb is far too strong.

I do appreciate that someone can't leverage an opinionated criticism without being labeled a fanboi. Real impartial of you. You sound exactly like what you're calling me, lol.

This wasn't even my initial point, though. The classes and/or combat just isn't very exciting. Man do I wish they were. All the other systems of the game are mostly on par with what I want.

Lodi · Jan 14, 2019

Merrith said:
You basically explain what you're saying in the first 2 paragraphs with your 3rd. If you're already against it to begin with, that's just how it's going to be. If I'm comparing pure button pushing from Legion combat in WoW versus 14, I like the slightly faster pace of WoW's. But the look of the combat and effects, 14 gets the nod 100%. The movement and such in wow hasn't felt natural in a long time to me, they simply nailed the smoothness of response time in their button pushing. How you do everything on screen doesn't look nearly as good as just having abilities go off as quickly as they do as you're inputting commands. Maybe it's just b/c I got tired of the art style and it really hasn't felt updated in 10 years at this point.

I love the BRD class in 14, not sure what you're playing. But I pretty much always play that ranged dps class, Hunter in WoW, Archer/Bard in 14.

BRD was probably what I had the most fun with, but it still left me wanting. It's just not for me, I suppose. Bummer.

Merrith · Jan 14, 2019

Lodi said:
BRD was probably what I had the most fun with, but it still left me wanting. It's just not for me, I suppose. Bummer.

to be fair, I really haven't played many other classes at max level. I have a White Mage and Samurai to 70, but mostly through sidequest/beast tribe/daily hunts rather than actually playing them and getting true feel for rotation. Bard just always seems to have something to do, and the better you get at it the more you can help out groups with utility abilities.

Asmadai · Jan 14, 2019

Lodi said:
I'm actually completely cynical about WoW at this point, but I can't deny that they do combat and art better than anyone else. I'm guessing you're the type that thinks games like BDO look good, though. I do not. The weeb is far too strong.

I do appreciate that someone can't leverage an opinionated criticism without being labeled a fanboi. Real impartial of you. You sound exactly like what you're calling me, lol.

This wasn't even my initial point, though. The classes and/or combat just isn't very exciting. Man do I wish they were. All the other systems of the game are mostly on par with what I want.

It's not that, I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all you're just like.....completely wrong lol. You honestly believe those cartoony races with their disproportional arms/body muscle, plagued with scoliosis, with armor that doesn't even look attached to the body half the time and/or is ridiculously sized based on the model itself are somehow better? I'm currently playing both games, and it's not even close. I get that they are more different in WoW, because "lol this one has blue skin" and "lol this one has green skin" (btw you can do this in FFXIV if you were unaware), but really?

You said you don't feel the same in combat, and specifically used Charge as an example. Warriors can Charge in FFXIV (Onslaught). Same exact animation; actually scratch that, FFXIV's Charge actually has some graphics to it aside from just dragging the character model across a straight line. I've played a DK in WoW since WOTLK, and tbh aside from the whole summoning undead thing, the Dark Knight in WoW feels FAR MORE akin to what a Knight of Death should be like than what WoW does. Warrior's Inner Release surrounds you in an aura of rage, and makes your eyes glow for the duration. Paladin's Passage of Arms, you hold up your shield and form a gigantic barrier made protective wings to protect the raid. Hell, White Mage makes a gigantic dome barrier that can shield everyone. These are just a few examples, I could go on, and yet you find WoW's combat with it's unrealistic spinning/flipping/twirling/lack of actual spell graphics to have MORE depth simple because MASH BUTTANS FASTER?

How could I NOT assume you were trolling? You just sound like the typical FFXIV hater who just blindly hates this game for reasons that are just wrong, or reasons you can't voice properly.

Malakriss · Jan 14, 2019

I still remember my progression Twintania kill where I got targeted with an orb in last phase with horrible ground pools and ninjaed an Aetherial Manipulation (BLM "blink" to an ally) to a healer standing near the neurolink to save my ass. That shit was smooth and the rest of the FC watching on stream thought so too.

Can I kill a raid member under an elevator with it? No. But that doesn't mean it's retarded.

Lodi · Jan 14, 2019

Asmadai said:
It's not that, I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all you're just like.....completely wrong lol. You honestly believe those cartoony races with their disproportional arms/body muscle, plagued with scoliosis, with armor that doesn't even look attached to the body half the time and/or is ridiculously sized based on the model itself are somehow better? I'm currently playing both games, and it's not even close. I get that they are more different in WoW, because "lol this one has blue skin" and "lol this one has green skin" (btw you can do this in FFXIV if you were unaware), but really?

You said you don't feel the same in combat, and specifically used Charge as an example. Warriors can Charge in FFXIV (Onslaught). Same exact animation; actually scratch that, FFXIV's Charge actually has some graphics to it aside from just dragging the character model across a straight line. I've played a DK in WoW since WOTLK, and tbh aside from the whole summoning undead thing, the Dark Knight in WoW feels FAR MORE akin to what a Knight of Death should be like than what WoW does. Warrior's Inner Release surrounds you in an aura of rage, and makes your eyes glow for the duration. Paladin's Passage of Arms, you hold up your shield and form a gigantic barrier made protective wings to protect the raid. Hell, White Mage makes a gigantic dome barrier that can shield everyone. These are just a few examples, I could go on, and yet you find WoW's combat with it's unrealistic spinning/flipping/twirling/lack of actual spell graphics to have MORE depth simple because MASH BUTTANS FASTER?

How could I NOT assume you were trolling? You just sound like the typical FFXIV hater who just blindly hates this game for reasons that are just wrong, or reasons you can't voice properly.

The "cartoony" look has far more charm to me than a generic unibody models that is barely reshaped across 6 bland races who have a total lack of distinction between them and all look like super models. Armor not properly fitting is something that doesn't bother me very much as EVERY game has it.

WoW races all have developed lore, memorable characters, memorable music. Let's look at the Roegadyn(sp?): generic giant race with little to no distinguishing features other than it's big. Nothing in the lore makes me care about them. I can't think of a song I would tie to their race. Now, compare that to Taurens...Cairne, Baine, Thunderbluff. There is all kinds of unique articulation for each of the WoW models too.

The only unique and charming race in this game is the Lalafell, but I'm not one for short races.

Onslaught does not feel NEARLY as good as Charge, and that's probably due to the constant lag this game experiences and how not enough stuff is off GCD. Between Heroic Leap and multiple Charges, Warriors in WoW feel way more fun to move around on. I also prefer subtler animations. I don't think the secret to class fantasy is making it so that every animation has speed lines.

And this MASH BUTTANS FASTER shit is simply incorrect. It's about being able to press a key when it feels appropriate to. Not too soon and not too late. I think WoW went to far with the whole rotation thing, ultimately making every class a bit too samey for my taste in terms of how their combat feels. But, it's still way more elegant and tuned than FF14. I see a lot of money and development time spent on particles and textures, and not a whole lot of fluidity and creativity in the combat design(outside of the encounter design, which is pretty good from what I've seen).

a_skeleton_05 · Jan 14, 2019

I'm with Lodi on many of his complaints. Even when setting the silly weeb shit aside, much of the art design and other elements are pretty bland. Though, I think WoW's strength in with this stuff is in the things it doesn't do, rather than what it does. If you look close enough it's all really basic shit, but your brain fills in the elements that are missing. With FF14, it's shiny/flashy things blowing up everywhere and it just overloads the experience. I also agree with the races being bland as fuck outside of the potatoes, but we also don't have the history of Warcraft propping them up like WoW has, or a similar situation with FF14 unless you played 11 I think?

Won't comment on how the classes feel as I'm nowhere near experiencing the whole package with them.

Cybsled · Jan 14, 2019

Wait, Lodi...did you just throw shade on FFXIV’s music? The music in that game blows literally everyone else out of the water.

Lodi · Jan 14, 2019

Cybsled said:
Wait, Lodi...did you just throw shade on FFXIV’s music? The music in that game blows literally everyone else out of the water.

Just the lack of any kind of distinctly memorable music that you would tie to a specific race. I do like the games music, though. I was just listing characteristics of a races identity.

Variations in models, lore, music are what came to mind.

a_skeleton_05 · Jan 14, 2019

The music is great aside from the FATE music and parts of Gridania's theme

Asmadai · Jan 14, 2019

To each his own I guess. It's hard to debate with some of these views. Art and designs are bland? Literally like every single "Horde" building in WoW is the copy/pasted generic wood + bone + spike structure. Every single Horde outpost is the exact same buildings, depending on what race they decide to make the primary focus for that specific zone, and have been for years, simply put in a different geosphere. WoW has frozen lands right next to tropical jungles right next to deserts on like every single continent; a completely unrealistic sort of layout.

Sure, from a racial perspective things are different, but that's simply because FFXIV took more of a realistic approach that different races and cultures inhabit all the different cities and locales, and thus things are more blended together, but still, if you look close enough the differences are there. WoW is more, "is this Tauren land? Yes. How do you know? Put totems everywhere. Is this Undead land? Yes. How do you know? Put glowing green Blight everywhere" repeat ad nauseam. If that's your cup of tea, that's just fine - but I wouldn't call any game that didn't take the easy way out like that "bland" by comparison.

Nola · Jan 14, 2019

Dom said:
The music is great aside from the FATE music and parts of Gridania's theme

This

Gavinmad · Jan 14, 2019

What kind of fags still play MMOs in this day and age?

Also how's the f2p/demo version of FF14?

yamikazo · Jan 14, 2019

The graphics in this game are crap. Character models don't even have shoulderpads. What is this, 1999?

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Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Lodi

Blackwing Lair Raider

Merrith

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Lodi

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a_skeleton_03

Merrith

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Asmadai

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Lodi

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Lodi

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Asmadai

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Nola

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